undergraduateresearch, #emory, #podcast "> Podcast | Christina-Chance-of-Emory-University-Math--Computer-Science--UG-Research-on-Fairness-in-AI--and-BLIS-e1l5jul

Podcast

Episode Notes | Episode Transcript | AskTheGuest

 Hi Fives (5 Highlights)   3-Minute Listen

As a recent member of the Emory University Alumni, Christina Chance looks back at her Undergraduate Experience in this podcast. Christina recently graduated with a Bachelor’s degree in Mathematics and Computer Science with a Physics Minor.

Christina had a number of interests in High school. When time came for college, she wanted to go where STEM and Humanities came together.

She got into UG Research at the end of her Sophomore year. She worked first in a Biomedical Lab and then moved to the Prof. Dorian Arnold’s Lab to pursue research she was really passionate about: Fairness in AI.

Christina joins us on our podcast to share her UG Experience at Emory, how she got into UG Research, her research in Fairness in AI and advice for high schoolers.

Hi-Fives from the Podcast are:

  1. Overall Emory Experience
  2. Why Emory?
  3. Fairness in AI
  4. Research Impact
  5. Advice for High Schoolers

Episode Notes

Episode Title: Christina Chance of Emory University: Math & Computer Science, UG Research on Fairness in AI, and BLIS.

Christina had a number of interests in High school. She liked Math, Photography and Sports. She was the Leader of the Multicultural Alliance in HS. When time came for college, she wanted to go where STEM and Humanities came together.

Christina joins us on our podcast to share her UG Experience at Emory, how she got into UG Research, her research in Fairness in AI and advice for high schoolers.

In particular, we discuss the following with her:

  • Overall Experience at Emory
  • Fairness in AI UG Research
  • Impact of UG Research
  • Majoring in Mathematics & Computer Science
  • Advice to Freshman and High Schoolers

Topics discussed in this episode:

  • Introduction to Christina Chance, Emory [0:44]
  • Hi Fives - Podcast Highlights [1:47]
  • Overall Emory Experience [4:19]
  • Why Emory? [5:25]
  • High School Interests [6:49]
  • Math & Research [8:29]
  • Starting UG Research [11:13]
  • Fairness in AI [13:31]
  • Interdisciplinary Research [18:09]
  • Research Impact [20:48]
  • Why Physics Minor? [22:06]
  • PhD @UCLA [25:33]
  • Advice for Freshman [26:26]
  • Emory Redo [27:20]
  • Skills for High Schoolers [28:15]
  • Memories [29:35]

Our Guests: Christina Chance graduated with a Bachelor’s degree in Mathematics and Computer Science and Physics Minor from Emory University. Christina joins the Doctoral Program at UCLA in Fall 2022.

Memorable Quote: “...there is a group called Girls for Technology, and the whole goal of the organization is to expose, like, young women to like tech. And so I went with them on a visit to Google, in New York City, where we met with a group of black women that worked there. And one of the biggest points of conversation was like, how identity influences tech”. Christina, about a field trip while in school.

Episode Transcript: Please visit Episode’s Transcript.

Similar Episodes: College Experiences , UG Research

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Episode Transcript

Transcript of the episode’s audio.

Christina C  0:14

Was always interested in like sciences in general. But with math like having one solution or like one definitive like answer always gave me comfort, I feel like I'm a procedural type of person. Leading into like, one final step and having a step by step routine of doing something always like, made me feel comfortable for math was just like a space in which I was comfortable in.

Venkat  0:44  [Introduction to Britain and Ethan, UW Whitewater]

That is Christina Chance, who recently graduated with a Bachelor’s degree in Mathematics and Computer Science with a Physics Minor, from Emory University.

Hello! I am your host Venkat Raman.

Christina had a number of interests in High school.

She liked Math, Photography and Sports.

She was the Leader of the Multicultural Alliance in HS.

When time came for college, she wanted to go where STEM and Humanities came together.

Venkat Raman  1:18

Christina joins us on our podcast to share her UG Experience at Emory, how she got into UG Research, her research in Fairness in AI and advice for high schoolers.

Venkat Raman  1:32

Before we jump into the podcast, here are the High-Fives,  Five Highlights from the podcast:

Christina C  1:47  [Highlights - Hi Fives]

[Overall Emory Experience]

But overall, my experience was amazing. Honestly, I was able to do a lot of things that I never thought I could do and make an impact. That coming in, I really thought I was just going to get a degree and leave. But I feel like I was able to do a lot more.

[Why Emory?]

But I was also worried that if I went to like a specifically technical school, I would lose, like my interdisciplinary, like focus, like one of my biggest goals was ensuring that, like, I can do research, that I could be like within STEM, but still be able to get like the human connection, the human impact that like science has on society.

[Fairness in AI]

But there's like a space in which not a lot of work is being done. And that's the area of speech. And she herself, she has like a very strong accent. So she was like, you should consider like how these tools support people's accents, people that speak different dialects. And I was like, That's very interesting. So I'm all my family's from Jamaica. And so like, I know, I certainly simply cannot use speech recognition. Like it just doesn't work. They have big accents. And so I was like, I had never thought of that before.

 

[Research Impact]

But when I was younger, I always complained like what am I ever going to use these things for? An action has definitely made me want to, like continue in academia.

[Advice for High Schoolers]

First one is to not be afraid to like take on opportunities or try things that are like provided for you or like given granted to you. Um, just because like you'll never know where you'll end up. Like, join that organization or like, take on that work study job, even if it doesn't seem like the funnest job, because like you, you'll get something out of it.

Venkat Raman  3:38

These were the Hi5s, brought to you by College Matters. Alma Matters.

Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

Venkat Raman  3:49

Now, I'm sure you want to hear the entire podcast with Christina.

So without further ado, here is Christina Chance!

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Venkat Raman  3:59  

If you're ready, we can jump right into it. Yeah. Cool. So maybe the best place to start is just looking back. I know. It's been just a few days, probably, but the Emory experience was and then we can go in from there.

Christina C  4:19  [Overall Emory Experience]

Yes, sure. Um, I will say that my Emory experience has definitely been interesting. I think the framing of having COVID in between like normal years of college really shaped how I was able to view like the impact or the importance of like communication and interaction, especially in college. I feel like because of COVID I was able to make more true and I guess real like connections with people especially like faculty and stuff, but Oh, Overall, my experience was amazing. Honestly, I was able to do a lot of things that I never thought I could do and make an impact. That coming in, I really thought I was just going to get a degree and leave. But I feel like I was able to do a lot more, which was overall just like a great experience.

Venkat Raman  5:21  

Why did you pick Emory? How did you end up here?

Christina C  5:25  [Why Emory?]

Um, yeah, so I knew I was interested in studying math and computer science. But I was also worried that if I went to like a specifically technical school, I would lose, like my interdisciplinary, like focus, like one of my biggest goals was ensuring that, like, I can do research, that I could be like within STEM, but still be able to get like the human connection, the human impact that like science has on society. And so going to Emory, I was able to kind of do both, you know, and we really focused on research, but also is like at the end of the day, liberal arts focus. So we have like our breadth requirements that allow us to really touch root and everything. And so Emory was a great school in that. And then again, like the location, I came from a predominantly like white upper class school. And so I definitely wanted to be in a city that was as diverse as possible. And I had a lot of opportunities for me to interact with students of color students from different backgrounds, financially, religiously, ethnic wise. And so I was definitely able to get that Atlanta. So it's kind of like the perfect combination of both.

Venkat Raman  6:41  

So maybe we go back a little bit in time, what were you like in high school, what what kind of things interested you?

Christina C  6:49  [High School Interests]

In high school, my interests were honestly all over the place. During high school, I was kind of exploring what I was interested in. So I definitely knew that I loved math, like that was the one subject that I stuck with my whole entire, like high school career. But outside of that I was really interested in like the arts, and sports. So I like through in high school. And that kind of helped me like focus in on like, how I interact with myself, which I know is like really takes lane. Throwing it was just like you alone, really. So you just had to learn how to think and process things on your own. And then I was also like, really into the arts. So like, I do a lot of photography, which was really fun. And like I was able to, like learn different programs on the computer using photography. But then outside of that I was really big on just like supporting students, we'll call it I got in predominately white spaces. So like I became, I went to a boarding school, so I was like an RA but for high schoolers. As well as like being a part of our Multicultural Alliance. And being a leader for that. There were a lot of challenges that I faced in high school, and kind of being in like our community specifically helped guide me through that and kind of influenced me to do what I then decided to do, and college. A lot of like the orcs that I joined

Venkat Raman  8:13  

you mentioned this a couple of times. So I'm gonna ask you about first your interest in math. Where do you think that sort of came from? And then secondly, you said you wanted to, to do research. So let's talk about math first, and then research.

Christina C  8:29  [Math & Research]

Yeah, math. So my interest in math, that was just like the one subject I was continuously good at. That's where I found like most comfort. I was never the biggest fan of like social studies or history. And so my I felt like the next step for me, I was always interested in like sciences in general. But with math, like having one solution, or like one definitive like answer always gave me comfort. I feel like I'm a procedural type of person. Leading into like, one final step, and having a step by step routine of doing something always like, made me feel comfortable.

And so math was just like a space in which I was comfortable. And so I'm outside of my comfort zone, also like a computer science major in computer sciences, where I like leaned into my research. And so I'm entering college. I had a few experiences and was like, I did internships, and I realized that internships weren't really like the answer to like what I wanted to do with computer science specifically, because I knew that more dominant over my math degree sadly.

And so I realized that I wanted to do things that I was interested in and that I felt had a more clear impact. And so kind of how I got into research, a company with I had started to org. And our advisor was Dr. Timothy Raines, who is the director of undergraduate research. So he kind of definitely put him into research, like I was always interested, but he's the one that kind of led me there. So like for joining IMSD, which is initiative for maximizing student develop, development, as well as joining SIRE, which is a scholarly inquiry and research experience at my college, I was able to learn more about like what I could do in research, you know, like, everybody thinks that research is like, one thing, like, when you think of research, you think of like, what labs, and like pipettes and that stuff, but that wasn't gonna be my research experience.

And so those two programs definitely, like opened the door for what research could be for me, as well as like, allowed me to continue. What I was interested in which at that point was it's ensuring like accessibility for underrepresented groups. And so finding that the intersection between kind of computer science and like accessibility and fairness work, kind of wedge shaped what I thought my research would look like, and ultimately, like what it actually has been done.

Venkat Raman  11:04  

So tell us about your research. I mean, so did you start? When did you start? Did you get into it in your freshman year? Or was it later?

Christina C  11:13  [Starting UG Research]

I definitely started research fairly late. So I joined IMSD, like the end of my sophomore year, and then I did, Sire, also like the end of my sophomore year, beginning of my junior year. So I was able to get into a lab. The summer before my junior year, I started in a biomedical lab in our med school, in which I was doing things that like I had the skill set for, like, I was creating, like a database online. And like, I could do all those things. But it wasn't necessarily like my interest, like I had never taken a bio course. And so like, looking at this stuff, I was like, I don't, I know it's important, but it doesn't really suit my interests. And so I did that for a year.

And then I switched to my current lab. That lab is with Dr. Dorian Arnold. So my research interests, fairness and AI, no one necessarily covers that at my school specifically. And so going in there, I had to find an advisor that was just like willing to support me through and through, and someone who like understood why I wanted to do this research. And so since it was focused on my identity, I wanted to ensure that there would be that my advisor would be someone who fully understood like how identity impacts like technology and things like that. And so Dr. Arnold was the perfect advisor that I could find to do this. And so now I'm working with him in his lab, or I like an AI fairness project, specifically around speech recognition and closed captioning for video conferencing tools. And so I've only done research for two years. And I wish I did it for more.

Venkat Raman  13:04  

So tell us a little bit about how you went about this fairness in AI? I mean, I think, of course, it's hugely topical. And a very, you know, obviously very interesting.

So, you know, give us a feel for how you kind of approached it and went about it? And what kind of, you know, outcomes if there are any at this point? And where do you see it going?

Christina C  13:31  [Fairness in AI]

Yeah, so it's definitely like topical is a really big space. And because of the lack of people at my university, specifically that worked on it, I definitely had to reach out to various different people to kind of get the support I needed in different aspects.

So when I say reached out, like I was working with people in the neuroscience department, in English, also in computer science and math, so like a lot of the people that were on my committee for my thesis, which I which ultimately is what this research was for, they were from different spaces, and they all kind of contributed different things and different ways to look at it.

And that's kind of where like the interdisciplinary thinking came in, just ensuring that like, I was focused at the end of the day, the people and the community that was kind of impacted by my research, and so furthers research. I didn't really I'm still working on it currently, just because there's always more to do and more to work on, of course, of course, and so I don't necessarily have any like, noteworthy outcomes, yet.

I did produce outcomes, but we're kind of working through the methodology, because things can always be improved, of course, but one of the biggest things that I learned throughout this process was like the lack of data around the lack of data and data sets for dialects outside of Standard American English.

And so like within like speech recognition, there's always an NLP, there's always been an issue of just like having a lack of speech data in general. But when it comes to underrepresented groups, there's no data at all. And so I was only really able to find one data set for African, African American Vernacular English.

 And so like finding a pairing to that has been like my biggest struggle. And so that's what I'm working on right now is addressing, like, our presentation in the data, trying to find a data set similar to that, so that I could go forth and actually assessing if these tools work or not for this dialect.

Venkat Raman  15:34  

So I'm curious, you know, I'd think it's fascinating that you picked voice recognition. But if there was a, you know, what would be the other things you would have looked at? If you could, you know, or, or another way of asking the question is, how do you arrive at speech recognition as the first thing to look at?

Christina C  15:55  

Yeah, so originally, I was considering facial recognition. No, it's been like a big topic. A lot of other researchers have covered it, like Joy Buolamwini, Timnit Gebru, [MIT] which are two of my hands down favorite researchers, when it comes to this kind of space.

And so I was talking with one of the people in my community, actually, Dr. Gillian Hue, and she mentioned that, like, facial recognition is being covered currently. But there's like a space in which not a lot of work is being done. And that's in the area of speech.

And she herself, she has, like, a very strong accent. So she was like, you should consider like how these tools support people's actions, people that speak different dialects. And I was like, That's very interesting. So I'm all my family's from Jamaica. And so like, I know, my family simply cannot use speech recognition, like, it just doesn't work. They have big accents. And so I was like, I had never thought of that before. But it's like an actual problem that's impacting many people across this country, and across the world, honestly. And so that's definitely how I got into the space, I was just thinking. And what I started to realize that there's a thing like in computer science, that you're supposed to code for other people, and not yourself. But I think that's been like, the biggest problem in computer science and in tech, in general is like, people code considering themselves and their needs. And so if that's what's gonna happen, then we should all like, consider the needs of ourselves and like, the people we represent. And so I thought that's, that's kind of how I'm approaching it now is like, as the person of color whose families are, whose family is from a different country and doesn't like speak the standard and doesn't look like the standard. How can I suit it says technology so that it works for them?

Venkat Raman  17:49  

So the couple of things, themes you touched on one was interdisciplinary research. And is that something that you kind of were encoded with, right from high school is that something that happened along the way,

Christina C  18:09  [Interdisciplinary Research]

It's something that definitely happened along the way. And I didn't really get into into the interdisciplinary research specifically, until I had like a very specific interaction, like at the ending of my high school experience, in which I was like, able to interact with sorry, so just for clarity, I'll tell the whole story because this is a quick story. Um, but in my hometown of like Hartford, Connecticut, there was a group called girls for a technology, which the whole goal of the organization is to expose, like, young women to like tech. And so I went with them on a visit to Google, in New York City, where we met with a group of black women that weren't there. And one of the biggest points of conversation was like, how identity influences tech. And so from that, I was not only introduced to computer science, but I was introduced to the idea of how like identity influences the work we do. And so during that summer, and the following year, I did a bunch of research around like, what it meant to have outside things outside of science influenced the work being done. And that's what kind of drove me into interdisciplinary studies in general and specifically research. And so through that, some of my professors throughout college kind of learned that that was kind of what I was interested in. So I took like a freshman seminar and my university requires to do it around like hot topics and bio for essay, and one of the conversations was about I believe it was like facial recognition or some form of recognition in healthcare and how it just didn't work for people with darker skin. And that was one of the big things that my professor really wanted me to get from that course was like that specific topic. And after researching that, for as well as just like the impact of data in general, after taking a database systems class, I really realized that interdisciplinary studies is what could shape and hopefully further better, the tech industry. And so that's how I kind of got there. It was a really rough path. But I'm glad I did find that.

Venkat Raman  20:26  

No, I think I think you're onto something. So, tell me, Christina, how is research making a difference for you? I mean, you know, is it having a big impact, small impact? Is it changing you in ways?

Christina C  20:48  [Research Impact]

I will definitely say that research has changed how I view and interact and coach specifically within technology is showing me that like, my interest, it's okay. I've always been, like, interested in fairness, but seeing technology. And the work I do through that viewpoint, through my research has really, like impacted me. And not only that, but it's definitely like made learning and academia a lot more interesting. I feel like when I was younger, I always complained like, what am I ever gonna use these things for? An action has definitely made me want to, like continue in academia. And like, that's what I'm doing in the future is like a lot of these skills that I'm learning a lot of these algorithms that I'm being taught and implementing in my classes, I can actually implement them in real life in my research and see like positive effects from them.

Venkat Raman  21:50  

So you're graduated right now. And I can understand math and CS now. Where did physics figure in as a minor? Why? Or how did physics come in?

Christina C  22:06  [Why Physics Minor?]

So in high school, I took physics, it was either physics or bio, for some reason I stayed away from bio, as opposed to, I just couldn't do it. So I definitely took physics. And that was a really good experience for me. But at the time, I didn't see how physics could ever connect my interest. my physics teacher at this, I was like, Christina, you should consider continuing it. And I kind of brushed that off, I was like, I'm never doing this. And then I got to high school to college. And it was actually a prereq. For Computer Science. I took it was like intro engineering, physics with some of my friends. And I realized that a lot of the concepts I'm learning were connected into, like bigger things in life. And at one point, I looked at, like the listings for like, different physics classes, and a lot of them are computational. I was like, That's very interesting. Like, I didn't know physics, it could be so computational could utilize like coding. And so through that, I was able to take some courses that like, interested me just in the fact that like, computer science is more versatile than I'd ever think. And so I decided to take my courses. And at that point, I had enough to be a physics minor. So I was like, I'll continue taking these courses and just got a minor. And I really did enjoy it. And it just showed how, like, interconnected everything that I was learning was.

Venkat Raman  23:26  

So I have a question for you. So you know, how come you didn't explore some liberal arts? Minor as well, or, you know, I know that these are all very stem focused. Right. But a lot of social science sort of crept in while you were doing your research and other things. So you didn't think consider those? Or is that something that you felt you didn't want to do?

Christina C  23:55  

I definitely did consider those. And that's where I kind of utilize our kind of liberal arts requirements. Yeah. So I was able to take a lot of courses and liberal arts specifically, I took a lot of African American Studies courses. I didn't end up getting a minor for that just because it required a lot of essay writing. That was not my strong suit. But I was able to take courses like that, I was able to take a course recently, that was like data justice. That was more of a lack of liberal arts STEM course, but like, and never crossed my mind and necessarily take it as a minor just because essay writing was not my strength, like, try to avoid that. So that's kind of why I stayed in the sciences. I also knew that in the future, I would be applying to grad school. And for requirements, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything too important. So that's kind of why but I did still continue to take those classes. They just didn't make it onto my list of mentors of mine. Yes.

Venkat Raman  25:01  

So do you still like a single answer? Are you okay with multiple Right answers?

Christina C  25:08  

I, I learned that I still like a single answer, but I like when there are multiple ways to get that to that single answer. Okay, okay. Yeah. I think that's because of computer science is like, oh, yeah, many approaches to one thing? Absolutely.

Venkat Raman  25:25  

Absolutely. So you're off to do your PhD. Right. Tell us a little bit about that.

Christina C  25:33  [PhD @UCLA]

Yeah. So in the fall, I'll be starting my PhD program in computer science at UCLA. The plan is to join their NLP lab, so that I can continue to work in speech recognition and natural language processing. But I will definitely see where the future takes me in terms of that. I know, I still want to continue doing as fairness like that will always be my main research focus. But to what extent I'm not sure,

Venkat Raman  26:03  

yeah. No, that's what research is for. Now that you have, you know, the rich experience of both research and your four years at Emory. What would you tell a freshman about research? What would your advice to them be?

Christina C  26:26  [Advice for Freshman]

Um, I will say that this is the one time that Oh, not the one time, but this is a great opportunity to see like the skills and logics that you learned in class, like, apply to something that like you really care about, and something that you can see yourself doing in the future. And it will also just like, reinforce, like what you know, already, and what you're learning so that it feels like things have a point to the endless class, the endless list of classes you're taking. Yeah. And also to try it either way, like, even if you're not necessarily interested in the topic to join the research lab, because you learn a lot of things along the way, no matter what.

Venkat Raman  27:15  

Now, if you could go back in time, would you have started research earlier earlier than when you did?

Christina C  27:20  [Emory Redo]

I? 100% Would. Yes. It will give me more time to develop my skills around research. I feel like I'm trying to learn as much as I can before going into my program in the fall. So yeah, I would definitely start earlier and also like try to be like different types of lab. Like, I'm glad I was able to have the experience in the biomedical lab, even though it didn't suit me. Having that experience taught me that I it didn't suit me.

Venkat Raman  27:49  

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, finding out what you don't like sometimes it's a bigger learning than the other way. What kind of advice would you give high schoolers? about college in general about doing research in college? You know, maybe they are applying this year or next year, Apple classroom? What should they be doing?

Christina C  28:15  [Skills for High Schoolers]

I think I will see you I think the first one is to not be afraid to like take on opportunities or try things that are like provided for you or like given granted to you. Um, just because like, you'll never know where you'll end up. Like, join that organization or like, take on that work study job, even if it doesn't seem like the funnest job, because like you, you'll get something out of it. I guess the second is to like, not be afraid to like, reach out to people and ask questions and ask for opportunities. One of the best pieces of advice I was told was that like, while I have like my@emory.edu email, like people will be more willing to say yes, like, they'll be less willing to give you a flat out no, because they know like you're young, and that you're impressionable and that they can help you to like grow as a person. And so utilizing that email as long as you have it. So yeah.

Venkat Raman  29:19  

Okay, so Christina, we are beginning to wind down here. I thought it might be nice to close with some memories or some vignette or something from your last four years that might want to share.

Christina C  29:35  [Memories]

Yeah, I think my favorite memory and this is like slightly professional, slightly serious. So I created an org with a few of my classmates called BLIS, black and Latinx and stem, which holds our visits to like create a community for black and Latinx students in STEM that kind of felt isolated in the classes and more students going to like Research and Graduate School. And so this org was like created as soon as the pandemic was starting. So it was already a struggle. But we had our first meeting on campus, like our first general body meeting before the pandemic started. And our goal was to just like get 10 names on a piece of paper, so we could provide the school with a roster of students that were interested. And so we like posted this flyer, everywhere, hoping that at least someone would show up. And we ended up having like, 30 students show up, we only got two boxes of pizza. So that definitely wasn't enough. But like, so many students were like, we needed this, like, Thank you for creating this. And like, I think that was one of my favorite memories is just like seeing that, like, Me, and My exec board weren't the only ones that like needed. This work. We're like, we're so glad we're not wasting time with this. And so I think that was literally the best memory was just like, knowing that there are other people out there struggling, and we're not the only ones.

Venkat Raman  30:57  

No, great point. Great. So wonderful. So, Christina, thank you so much for taking the time and sharing all your thoughts and stories around your experience at Emory. You know, I'm sure you're gonna have a great career. Good luck at UCLA and beyond. And I'd love to keep in touch. So take care, be safe. And I'll talk to you soon.

Christina C  31:25  

Thank you. Thank you for talking with me.

Venkat Raman  31:27  

Absolutely. Take care. Bye. Bye.

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Venkat  31:36  [Close]

Hi again!

Hope you enjoyed our podcast with Christina on her research & undergraduate experiences at Emory.

Christina joined Emory with a broad idea of what she wanted to study.

She got into UG Research at the end of her Sophomore year.

She worked first in a Biomedical Lab and then moved to the Prof. Dorian Arnold’s Lab to pursue research she was really passionate about: Fairness in AI.

She worked on NLP and Speech Recognition support for under-represented groups.

Christina will now join the Doctoral Program at UCLA to continue speech recognition and NLP work.

I hope Christina’s undergraduate research  experience inspires you to do UG research and explore Emory for your UG program.

For your questions or comments on this podcast, please email podcast at almamatters.io [podcast@almamatters.io].

Thank you all so much for listening to our podcast today.

Transcripts for this podcast and previous podcasts are on almamatters.io forward slash podcasts [almamatters.io/podcasts].

To stay connected with us, Subscribe to Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts or Spotify or visit anchor.fm forward slash almamatters [anchor.fm/almamatters] to check us out.

Till we meet again, take care and be safe.

Thank you!


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