Episode Notes | Episode Transcript | AskTheGuest
As an undergraduate student and Goldwater Scholar at University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, Justice Robinson shares her undergraduate experience. Justice is pursuing a Bachelor’s degree in Neuroscience.
After high school, Justice was forced to take up a job. During that period, a number of personal experiences & trauma motivated her to want to become a brain scientist.
So, after 6 years of selling insurance, Justice enrolled in Tulsa Community College, and opened the door to Research, The Goldwater Scholarship and more.
Later, she transferred to UNC to pursue the 4-year program.
Hi-Fives from the Podcast are:
Episode Title: Justice Robinson of UNC: Goldwater Scholar, UG Research at Tulsa Community College to Frohlich Lab.
After high school, Justice was forced to take up a job. During that period, a number of personal experiences & trauma motivated her to want to become a brain scientist.
So, after 6 years of selling insurance, Justice enrolled in Tulsa Community College, and opened the door to Research, The Goldwater Scholarship and more.
Justice joins our podcast to share her undergraduate college journey, UG Research experiences at TCC and UNC.
In particular, we discuss the following with her:
Topics discussed in this episode:
Our Guests: Justice Robinson is currently pursuing a Bachelor’s degree in Neuroscience from University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Justice received the Associates degree in Biology from Tulsa Community College. Justice received the Barry Goldwater Scholarship in 2020.
Memorable Quote: “And so I am much more comfortable with not being perfect. And I think it's made a difference in my mentoring. And the way I address school where I'm not as stressed out, I'm planning things better. So taking a step back and kind of experiencing not being the best really made me better all around, I think” Justice Robinson.
Episode Transcript: Please visit Episode’s Transcript.
Similar Episodes: College Experiences , UG Research
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Transcript of the episode’s audio.
There was a plant that hadn't, didn't seem to be able to match quite. And so I got to ask my professor, well, does that mean that we're the first ones in the world to have done it? And she replied that that it's quite possible that we are to upload this certain sequence of DNA. And just being that close on the edge of Discovery and Science is just the biggest thrill.
That is Justice Robinson, who is pursuing a Bachelor’s degree in Neuroscience at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Hello! I am your host Venkat Raman.
Justice liked Science in High School
Financial circumstances forced her to take a job after high school.
During that period, a number of personal experiences & trauma motivated her to want to become a brain scientist.
So, after 6 years of selling insurance, Justice enrolled in Tulsa Community College, and opened the door to Research, The Goldwater Scholarship and more.
Venkat Raman 1:26
Justice joins our podcast to share her undergraduate college journey, UG Research experiences at TCC and UNC.
Venkat Raman 1:37
Before we jump into the podcast, here are the High-Fives, Five Highlights from the podcast:
[Gap Years]
When I was 24, I found myself working in life insurance. And yeah, I even had went through a little period of pretty pretty, really bad, like homelessness for a moment. And once that was over, and I kind of saw like how my life was going, which seemed kind of dull. And just in the office all the time, I just wondered if like, you know, I want to be a brain scientist.
[Goldwater Scholarship]
I saw that they had only two requirements that stuck out to me, which is I had to have a certain GPA. And I had to want to have a PhD in my plan and conduct research as a profession. And so I said, Oh, hey, I can do those too.
[Scholarship Impact]
And I also got to meet such a great, wonderful people by joining the Goldwater scholar Council, which is a council made up of Goldwater scholars just trying to do their part in helping other scholars and making it a community based award. So you gain so much more than just let's say like, prestige and in in funds.
[How UG Research Shaped her Education]
Working in labs or doing research at the same time that I'm learning the material has always enhanced my learning beyond what I feel like I can just learn by listening and maybe even mimicking and on maybe paper without actually touching.
[Advice for High Schoolers]
Ask questions for sure. And the earlier you ask questions, so like in junior or senior year, the better the better it can be because you already kind of have a plan or path and that it's okay if that path gets a little derailed.
Venkat Raman 3:44
These were the Hi5s, brought to you by College Matters. Alma Matters.
Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
Venkat Raman 3:56
Now, I'm sure you want to hear the entire podcast with Justice.
So without further ado, here is Justice Robinson!
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Venkat Raman 4:05
So very good. So if you're ready, we can jump right in. And I thought maybe we could start with sort of overall impressions about undergraduate research and your higher ed experience so far.
So I'm first like to point out that like undergrad experience, I've noticed, looks very different depending on where you kind of start and where you are. So that was a big, big thing that I noticed. Something that doesn't seem as accessible as it actually is. Just sometimes the experience is kind of hidden through maybe coursework or maybe a conversation with a professor or really putting yourself out there. So I would say that my overall experience has definitely been very great. I've learned a lot about teamwork about my own ambitions and I've met a lot of really cool people along the way.
Venkat Raman 5:06
So maybe we can take a step back and talk a little bit about your high school. Just give us a sense of who you were in high school. What were your general interests? Any particular passion?
Okay. So in high school, I was a pretty well known as a nerd have been highly into academics for quite some time. And I was also interested in art artistic expression. So I did drama club, and I did art club, where I get to really create things in a different way. And then I did things like National Honor Society, where we speak more in scholarly terms. And so yeah, I was just pretty friendly. Little nerd. Interesting.
Venkat Raman 5:59
Fantastic. So at that point, what were you thinking about college? What were you interested in pursuing?
Justice R 6:10
So what kind of surprises some of my peers is I actually didn't know what I wanted to do. When I originally went to college, or originally tried. There was a gap in some years. And so I actually originally thought I would go in undecided, interested in psychology, if I wasn't quite sure I would want to do as a major. And prior to that, I thought I would be an acting major. Well, I love theater. Yeah. I assumed that would be a performing arts major, some sort. So there was a little bit of deviation, I just realized I didn't absolutely needed degree to do such. So I wanted to maybe switch it up a little.
Venkat Raman 6:58
So tell us about going to the going to Tulsa Community College, you said there was a gap. So what exactly happened? And how was the Tulsa experience?
Okay, um, so I had a six year gap. Due to largely financial reasons, I come from a lower income family. And so it was kind of important for me to work and didn't realize my parents really couldn't sign for loans. For me, so I noticed that as an older student, I would possibly be able to enter them by myself once I built up a little credit and did some things like independently. So when I was 24, I found myself working in life insurance. And yeah, I even had went through a little period of pretty pretty, really bad, like homelessness for a moment. Once that was over, and I kind of saw like, how my life was going, which seemed kind of dull. And just in the office all the time, I just wondered, I was like, you know, I want to be a brain scientists. Due to like life experiences, like interest in mental illness, how the body, the brain biologically changes when things of that nature occur. And so I called up actually in New York University, and I asked if I were to start at the community college in Tulsa, Oklahoma, which is where I was living at the time, if they would, which major should I choose psych or biology? And they asked if I wanted to have more like bench work skills. And when I said yes, they said biology's it. So I joined kind of on a whim. Sure.
Venkat Raman 8:54
So in high school, did you take any biology Did you like it?
Justice R 8:59
I did. I took, I believe one bio class my freshman year. I don't remember particularly liking it actually.
Venkat Raman 9:13
So this was a basically a great restart for you or a, you know, a great way to jump into something. So. Okay, cool. So you pick bio, and you decide to go to community college, I assume, to Tulsa. So, so what happened there? How was that experience? How was that transition?
It was absolutely amazing. I would probably like, based on my experience, community college was definitely the way to go due to the flexibility in their classrooms. And, you know, they don't have a lot of times like really big like these major labs like universities. But what's interesting is that there is still ways to get involved, but they're just kind of woven into other things. So a lot of my research experience was at were actually parts of class work. And they would just, they would offer it through the Honors classes mostly. And so I would pick my classes strategically to be able to gain research experience while being able to learn the subject.
Venkat Raman 10:24
Why were you interested in research or how, what was driving that?
The main goal is to add to the body of knowledge of what we know about the brain. I knew that in order to get to that part, I kind of like to work backwards. So where do I want to go and then trickle back down to figure out where am I supposed to to be? And I noticed that having a really solid knowledge of the real way the scientific method works would only be gained through hands on experience in research. So that was, that was the reason.
Venkat Raman 11:01
Tell us tell us about the undergraduate undergraduate research or the types of researchers ended up doing or started doing? What were some examples. And then we can talk about the impact and things like that.
Okay, um, so my first one that I still list was actually pretty basic. It was for my intro to a bio course. And it was collecting rainwater from around Tulsa because there was an article I found in the 80s, that there had been acid rain in the area. And so with my limited knowledge of pH, I got pH strips. And from I collected water from the sink, I use bottled water for control. And I collected fresh no water out of a lake. And I made a comparison of what their pH values were. And try to ascertain from that meet, if there may have been any lasting impacts or something very basic, but still gives me that hands on experience.
I then did a summer class that was all about, like more a bioinformatics thing. So it was all DNA, I was very lucky my community college had a biotechnology program at the school. So there was a DNA lab. And they would do summer programs and summer classes where we would do PCR or polymerase chain reaction on plants, and then make a phylogenetic tree, and then be able to present what we found at a conference at the end of the summer. And that was really big, really major tip for things to be 100% in the research, doing, like centrifuging during the process of PCR, it was fascinating, and sometimes frustrating because PCR can be frustrating. But it was really, really amazing.
My microbiology course, had us both learning microbiology, but also participating in tiny Earth professor was a part of that where you're collecting microbes from dirt around your school, and you're testing them against that known pathogens. So really great time. And my last research experience before the pandemic was supposed to be a anatomy study, based on how fast people would react to different types of music. So I also got to go through the IRB process obviously didn't get to do the actual experiment. The IRB was approved so there was that
Venkat Raman 13:57
So these are all very interesting experiments and research. Now what kind of impact was it having on you?
Um, it definitely helped shape all my a lot more, I would say confidence in how I kind of move now. It definitely helped me understand a little bit more about the scientific method and how some things just don't turn out right then maybe at the start all the way over. Your hypotheses is probably going to change from what you originally started looking at. I learned that and a lot of cooperation between people who are very skilled at different disciplines. With the plant project, we enlisted the help of a botanist, a pretty famous botanist in Oklahoma, and it was just so much fun. It might brain just to be able to do these things that in one moment seem like not that big a deal but to drive home wondering Why do we do this step? Or what is this supposed to learn or sometimes just being completely stumped and meaning someone to repeat again, and it really helped me enjoy what I was learning by being able to manipulate it in some way?
Venkat Raman 15:12
How did you hear about the Goldwater Scholarship? And what, What research did you apply for, Or did you describe in that?
So, in order to provide for myself to go to school, I work overnight as a night auditor at hotels. And at the time, I was just looking for a way to fund moving on to a four year university. So I realized from like this list that the honors program had had of available scholarships.
For that reason, I saw that they had only two requirements that stuck out to me, which is I had to have a certain GPA, and I had to want to have a PhD in my plan and conduct research as a profession. And so I said, Oh, hey, I can do those too. I had no idea what it was about. I women quite naive, quite not understanding what I was undertaking.
So I asked my honors program, they gave me the contact for my campus representative. And I set up in the middle of summer. Meeting with her, she was brand new to it. I didn't know what I was doing. She didn't know what she's doing. We were just gonna work it out. Together. And, yeah, that's how we got started. I spent six months prepping and getting letters, letters of recommendation and things of that nature.
Venkat Raman 17:02
Now, were you, were you asking for a project or a research topic that you wanted to do? Or was it something that you were already doing?
Justice R 17:12
So a major component of the Goldwater application is the research essay. And so in that it, the guidelines state that you can either describe a previous work or maybe propose a way you, would you? So if there are people without much research experience, if you kind of have had enough experience in other ways to kind of format that you can propose how you would do such things? Probably would be very detailed. I didn't do it that way, because I had the experience already, but it can be done.
It can be done, it has been done. I use the research from the summer course. So the talk of PCR and working with others and the experience the conference had, and how big of an impact that made. I also included in mind, what was my drive for research and how I ended up there. So I kind of made it framed it in a scientific way. But it was really interesting.
Venkat Raman 18:22
And what did you want to do with that? Where did you want to take that? Research? This is the bioinformatics stuff, right? Oh, yeah.
Justice R 18:31
So I, at the time, I just wanted my hands on research. There's one scientist I met that teaches at the grad school level. And he said, you know, at this point in your career, learning how to properly use micropipette solid, it's just great. You're doing really great because you're already getting the skills. So my biggest goal in doing any of that, even though I knew that my main focus was the brain was to be able to bring skills to the table and really gain as much as I can.
Venkat Raman 19:14
So describe the process. I mean, I see you you apply they said it took took about six months to put it all together. You made the application and then just briefly tell us how it all came about.
So I was actually applying for another scholarship at the time as well, The Jack Kent Cooke. The Goldwater Scholarship that kind of quiet for a while. Not that you're not stressing about it, I just I honestly didn't think coming from a community college in by this point. After going through the application process. I had learned what big deal it was, so I just thought there was no way there's no way I could win that win. I was better off with the Jack Kent Cooke because at least they could kind of seek out low income students that are specifically for community college students. I didn't think I can compete with Harvard or like UNC students. However, right after the lockdown happened, I received the email that said that I won. And for a while I was still in a state of shock. And I sometimes to even when I mentor was still in a state of shock, and usually if they win, they definitely in a state of shock. So it's an interesting process.
Venkat Raman 20:43
So what next, I mean, so you got the scholarship, then what happened? What what changed for you?
So, right after, I want to say maybe two weeks after I won the scholarship, the school had me do some PR stuff, which is kind of interesting. And weird. I was on TV. That was a bit strange. But I made fun, it was fun. Then I got the acceptance to the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill as a neuroscience major, and I was able to apply the funds that I got. So that helped me out quite a bit, especially since you know, I'm from Oklahoma. And that's half across halfway across the country, which was a big move for me. And I also got to meet such a great, wonderful people by joining the Goldwater scholar Council, which is a council made up of Goldwater scholars just trying to do their part in helping other scholars and making it a community based award. So you gain so much more than just let's say, like, prestige and in in funds. They want it to make it almost like a like a, I won't say like a fraternity. But like some type of community that can help out each other.
Venkat Raman 22:07
No, absolutely. Absolutely. Now, do you think the Goldwater Scholarship was somewhat, I don't want to say instrumental but important in your admission to UNC? Or do you think that was quite independent of that?
Justice R 22:22
So I applied before I knew about the Goldwater decision. So it may not have influenced the acceptance, but it has definitely influenced. I've noticed kind of the way the professor's view me. Yeah, it has opened up a lot of doors, it didn't take very long to get involved in the research community here. I actually moved a little earlier to start research right off the bat. And that was really a part of having that. Having that name under my belt, it really gave a sense of seriousness, especially when coming from a community college level. So I think it's made all the difference since I've been here.
Venkat Raman 23:11
So let's sort of talk about your transition to UNC. First of all, going from a two year college to a four year how big a change was that?
It was an enormous change. enormous change, especially because I did not well, no one could factor in being on lockdown pretty much most of my time here. So it was a tremendous change. I have definitely grown a lot as a student in individual here. And really, really found some struggle definitely, there was a lot of changes that I had to adjust to you. It's a lot busier, I feel at a university than a community college. And this the schedule seem a lot less flexible, which kind of confuses me. But I guess it is how it goes here. But it's overall been well, definitely.
Venkat Raman 24:19
So how are the academics?
Justice R 24:23
Very, very. I am definitely not at the very top of the pack most of my courses, but that's okay. I learned that transferring the perseverance that I had to have in my personal life to my academic one, it makes both failure not become as scary. And it gives me an ability to really try again and just keep at it. There are some courses I realized, hey, with all of these other classes, this is maybe a little too dense for me. So I might Need to withdraw I, I learned a lot more about like work life balance and such with being able to do that, in the school has been awesome. It's actually fairly common, which I didn't know, because I never did it. And I give you college level to kind of kind of take a step back and try again. And so I am much more comfortable with that much more comfortable with not being perfect. And I think it's made a difference in my mentoring and the way I address school where I'm not as stressed out and planning things about her. So taking a step back and kind of experiencing not being the best really made me better all around, I think.
Venkat Raman 25:44
How did you find your peers? I mean, compared to a community college, how did you find the peer group and classmates at UNC? Or how are you finding that brother.
So most of my peers are actually the people I work with in lab, who I spend the majority of my time with, I do see him the age gap has been really interesting to observe. Because I'm on average of six to seven years old, it might be my classmates, which is a big difference, because I was more of the median age at a community college, that has been a big shift. On my 28th birthday, my classmates were pretty shocked, because I guess I haven't really aged that much. And they asked me if that meant that I was a millennial, which, yes, but it was really interesting, but they've been very welcoming. They teach me a little bit more about technology. So it's, it's been an interesting mix, that the lab a definitely has the more mixture of ages with the postdocs that I'm used to. So I usually kind of chat with them and talk about anything from personal to what type of crazy ideas we may have in the lab. So it's nice, and I've worked friends. Let's find my peers.
Venkat Raman 27:19
So, talk a little bit about research you're doing at UNC, the undergraduate research, are you continuing? Would you started at dos or is this all new ballgame.
So it was a completely different ballgame. I joined the Froelich lab that's within the UNC School of Medicine. And that is part of the psychiatry department. It's a neuroscience Focus Lab where they focus on neural oscillations or brainwaves, and various mental disorders and mental illnesses. So it's been really interesting. I work on the human labs I work with humans now. It's very different from like microbes and little bits. It's way harder to schedule I can tell you in the previous main two projects I've worked on this year, focused around depression with measurable levels of Anhedonia. And using a machine that's called TACS, or transcranial alternating current stimulation, to kind of what I kind of say like hijack more like influence the synovial waves, certain located parts of the brain. And then in another study, we are focusing on memory working memory specifically, and how it can be influenced by a similar technique that's called TMS, which is transcranial magnetic stimulation. So making a magnetic field with magnets, so that's really interesting.
Venkat Raman 29:09
So it's fascinating. So are you doing anything different during the summers? Or are you just you just continue the lab? Or are you trying to get out and do something else in industry or internship or something like that? What do you do?
Justice R 29:26
So since I still work, for the time being at a hotel, I typically just stay in the labs. And I work around like one or two classes, like right now I'm taking calculus two and the morning time working at night and during sets of scheduling throughout the week for the lab.
Venkat Raman 29:49
So you know you, you talked about how you wanted to work on things related to the to the brain and It's very impressive that you found a way to get there. And do you? I'm assuming you still love it and like it. And that's what you want to major in. Now, how has undergraduate research sort of shaped your education so far? I mean, it sounds like, you know, they've basically added up to where you are today. I mean, is that a fair statement?
Oh, yes, very fair. I would definitely say I'm one of those people that kind of struggled when things went online, or maybe struggled a lot when things went online, because I kind of require that maybe kinesthetic learning environment where you're getting them manipulate. So working in labs, or doing research, at the same time that I'm learning the material has always enhance my learning beyond what I feel like I could just learn by listening, and maybe even mimicking and on maybe paper without actually touching. So I think the lab has definitely helped really influence or I'm able to take things that I use in the classrooms like statistics. And I'm much able able to understand what's going on around me, the more heavier parts of what the postdocs are doing. And I'm able to ask questions a lot better and actually understand what they're saying. It's made journal reading a lot easier. And so there's a lot of back and forth. And having that bridge, I would say, research, just kind of that, that bridge and that playground and where I get to actually use the stuff that I'm learning in classrooms.
Venkat Raman 31:50
The other thing as you were talking about earlier years, the thing I wanted to ask you is that if you could go back in time to just after high school, and you were able to, would you do things differently? Or do you think that gap before you went to the Tulsa Community College made a huge difference that gave you more motivation and drive? Or? Or do you think you would have started off and you think that was always there? The drive was always there?
Do you think the drive was always there, I don't think I maybe realized that opportunity. So I think maybe I was kind of scared. I didn't realize if I was gonna still be worried in the beginning. That was if I would still be competitive academically, since there had been so much time. So if I would change instead of a six year gap, I maybe would have fought for a little bit more stability a little early on, and maybe meeting maybe like a two year or three year gap. Of course, I was depending on my financial situation. But yeah, just shorting the gap would probably be the best thing, or the only thing I could think of
Venkat Raman 33:05
no, but But you know, you know, as things stand, I think, I think you're in a great spot. And it sounds like the break you got with research and then subsequently winning a bunch of scholarships, like the Goldwater Scholarship, certainly has made a huge difference and impact. So congratulations for making all this happen. I mean, I just very amazing and really inspiring story. And I know it's still being written. So having there's a lot more there.
Venkat Raman 33:40
So just as I wanted to kind of have you take a step back, and if you were to advise or counsel high schoolers today, you know both about about research as well as about undergraduate study. What kind of advice would you give them?
So, as a high schooler, I think I would advise them to kind of chase their passion, especially when it comes to science or stem. They're interesting the amount of ways to fund schooling. They are interesting jobs I had in high school I had never heard of, so I would maybe pick something, pick a passion pick a couple of passions baby. And when going into college, kind of keep an open mind. Ask questions for sure. And the earlier you ask questions, it's so like in junior senior year, the better the better. It can be because you already kind of have a plan or path and that it's okay if that path gets a little derailed. It doesn't have to mean the end. There's nothing wrong with a break or some breaks or the success isn't a linear path at all. So, like, biggest advice would be just to breathe and kind of trust the process and give it your all.
Venkat Raman 35:11
Okay, so just as we are starting to wind down here I talked if you had any interesting memory or some anecdote or vignette or whatever you want to share for our listeners based on whatever's been going on for the last four or five years or more. It's been a great time to do that.
I think one of my fondest memories may have come from the biotechnology research I did for that summer.
Once we were analyzing the data, we realized within the phylogenetic tree and the the informatic information that we had gotten from the that major merger site for biotechnology, that there was a plant that hadn't, didn't seem to be able to match quite.
And so I got to ask my professor, well, does that mean that we're the first ones in the world to have done it? And she replied that that it's quite possible that we are. To upload this certain sequence of DNA. And just being that close on the edge of Discovery and Science shifts, the biggest thrill. It was like being on a roller coaster sitting in lab. That was probably one of my fondest moments of being an undergrad researcher.
Venkat Raman 36:42
Now, just to follow up on that, what was the outcome? Was that the first you had noticed that someone else already seen that sequence?
Justice R 36:52
So from what appeared we, we were the first ones, And I asked when we just could not get a match. We couldn't get it anywhere close. And what I think that space species being native to Oklahoma, it's quite possible that just no one got around. Yeah. So they said that she said that they may later on, go back and review and retest it, because I think there's certain protocol when you think you're the first one, so you have to continue and do a few of them to make sure, but I didn't even need to be involved with the rest of it. Just the fact that it was in the room when it was discovered. It's great.
Venkat Raman 37:35
You know, it's like, naming a star or finding a new star. Awesome. So just as this is a fascinating story, inspiring story. And I want to congratulate you on all the great work and the successes you've had. And just keep up the great work. And I'm sure we'll talk more in the future. But for right now, thank you so much. Take care and be safe.
Justice R 38:00
Thank you so much for having me. This has been a lot of fun. Thank you
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Hi again!
Hope you enjoyed our podcast with Justice Robinson on her undergraduate journey.
What an inspiring story!
Amazing drive and spirit, passion for creating new knowledge and most of all, unafraid to try out new things.
Having the confidence to jump into college after a gap of 6 years with the goal of becoming a brain scientist.
Things worked out for her.
The Goldwater Scholarship application came together and she actually won the award.
Later, transferring to UNC to pursue the 4-year program.
I hope you find Justice’s story inspiring and moves you to challenge yourself.
For your questions or comments on this podcast, please email podcast at almamatters.io [podcast@almamatters.io].
Thank you all so much for listening to our podcast today.
Transcripts for this podcast and previous podcasts are on almamatters.io forward slash podcasts [almamatters.io/podcasts].
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Till we meet again, take care and be safe.
Thank you!