College Podcast, High School Counselor, High School Students, College Counseling, College Admissions, College Application, Extracurricular, Applying to US Colleges, Seattle Prep, Advice for High School Students,Managing Expectations, Applying Early, Dream Colleges"> Podcast | Sandra-Foy-of-Seattle-Prep-on-College-Counseling-Students-Getting-to-Know-About-Themselves-e1tf4sb

Podcast

Episode Notes | Transcript | AskTheGuest

 Hi Fives (5 Highlights)   Click for 2.5-Minute Listen

Sandra Foy is the Director of College Counseling at Seattle’s Jesuit College Prep School.

Sandra’s approach for counseling has been shaped by her experience over the last few decades:

  • Help a Student get to learn, as much as they can, about themselves;
  • Work with Parents and Families of Students;
  • Manage Expectations;
  • With the Goal, Help every student that wants to go to college, to be able to go to college.

Hi-Fives from the Podcast are:

  1. The Seattle Prep School
  2. Role at the School
  3. Approach to Counseling
  4. Managing Expectations
  5. Advice for High Schoolers

Episode Notes

Episode Title: Sandra Foy of Seattle Prep on College Counseling: Students Getting to Know About Themselves.

Sandra got her start in College Counseling when Seattle Prep changed direction to become a 4-year High School Program in the late ‘80s. She was part of the team that began offering a program to prepare their students for college.

Today, she is the Director of College Counseling at the school.

On our podcast, Sandra shares her background, her counseling approach, changes over the decades, managing expectations, and advice to high school students.

In particular, we discuss the following with her:

  • Sandra Foy’s Background
  • Approach to College Counseling
  • Changes Over the Years
  • Advice for High Schoolers

Topics discussed in this episode:

  • Introducing Sandra Foy, Seattle College Prep [0:40]
  • Hi Fives - Podcast Highlights [1:44]
  • Professional Background [3:55]
  • Why Counseling? [4:54]
  • Seattle College Prep [6:12]
  • Role at the School [8:24]
  • Approach to College Counseling [10:26]
  • Changes over the Years [11:47]
  • COVID Impact [18:34]
  • About Undeclared Majors [21:28]
  • Advice for High Schoolers [25:09]
  • Staying Excited [29:21]

Our Guest: Sandra Foy is the Director of College Counseling at Seattle College Preparatory.

Memorable Quote: “So it's rewarding to help kids navigate the process, because there's so many different kids with different points of view. And I really like that.” Sandra Foy.

Episode Transcript: Please visit Episode’s Transcript.

Recommended Episodes: College Experiences

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Episode Transcript

Transcript of the episode’s audio.

<Start Snippet> Sandra F  0:14  

Seeing students succeed. I mean, it doesn't matter. You know, if it's somebody getting into an Ivy League school or somebody getting into, you know, UW Bothell, which is close to us, I'm just excited for them, when they are able to kind of figure this out and find some options that are exciting to them, and they're looking forward to that.

Venkat  0:40  [Introducing Sandra Foy, Seattle Prep]

That is Sandra Foy, Director of College Counseling at Seattle’s Jesuit College Prep School.

Hello, I am your host, Venkat Raman.

Sandra got her start in College Counseling when Seattle Prep changed direction to become a 4-year High School Program in the late ‘80s.

She was part of the team that began offering a program to prepare their students for college.

Today, she is the Director of College Counseling at the school.

Venkat Raman  1:17

On our podcast, Sandra shares her background, her counseling approach, changes over the decades, managing expectations, and advice to high school students.

Before we jump into the podcast, here are the Hi-Fives,  Five Highlights from the podcast:

Sandra F  1:44  [Highlights - Hi Fives]

[Moving from College to High School]

So we have almost 800 students, and that we can't really grow any bigger than that we're we're in the middle of Seattle on Capitol Hill, a little bit landlocked. So that's about our capacity. And I also think in terms of our mission, that's about as big as the school wants to be. So

[Students Apply to Int’l Schools]

We have a team of college counselors, so myself and another person who works full time. And then we have three full time regular school counselors. So those counselors work with the students all through their four years, but we picked up with them in their junior year beginning of junior year.

[Philosophy of Counseling]

It's really important for students to get to know as much as they can about themselves, and then to find a range of schools where they might be happy, and that might work for them and for their families.

 

[Managing Expectations]

That's, I think, probably one of the toughest parts of our job, honestly, it's that we don't want to be, we don't want to be the office where dreams go to die. We don't want to be downers. But we also want to make sure they're empowered with really good information so they can end up you know, having a lot of options that are really good for them.

[Advice for High Schoolers]

I mean, one of the things that we tell them is when you're a freshman and a sophomore in high school, really focus on getting solid with your academics, and getting involved in some things that you genuinely enjoy and love. Don't worry about college so much worry about high school.

Venkat Raman  3:23

These were the Hi5s, brought to you by “College Matters. Alma Matters.”

Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

Venkat Raman  3:34

Now. I'm sure you want to hear the entire podcast with Sandra.

So without further ado, here's the podcast with Sandra Foy!

-----------------

Venkat Raman  3:43  

If you're ready we can jump right in

Sandra F  3:45  

I am ready.

Venkat Raman  3:47  

Awesome. Cool. So maybe Sandra, why don't we start with your background how you got into this counseling business?

Sandra F  3:55  [Professional Background]

Sure. So I actually started as a school counselor, and did school counseling for a number of years and then left for a little while and did some administrative work in some schools. And when I came back to Seattle Prep in the early 1990s. College Counseling was just becoming kind of a thing. And I was asked to help to establish a program here in college counseling. And so myself and another colleague, kind of set upon the task of learning everything we could about colleges and trying to set up some processes and opportunities here for students to learn about colleges and make better decisions as they went along.

Venkat Raman  4:40  

So you got to start this up at the school. Yes. So did you have any special affinity to college counseling or just an opportunity or how was it?

Sandra F  4:54  [Why Counseling?]

The only affini.. well, first of all, when I first came to Seattle Prep, I've been at Seattle Prep twice. I came originally as a school counselor. And when I first came, we were actually involved in a program that partnered with Seattle University, whereby our students would spend three years on our campus, and then three years on the Seattle University campus, and that would culminate in a BA in the humanities. And that work, a program that was funded by the Carnegie Foundation, in the mid 70s. Towards the end of the 80s, and beginning of 1990, the school decided to move away from that program and go back to a traditional four year program. And at that point, we then had students who came to Seattle prep, primarily because they wanted to go to college. And we're in need of providing a program for them. And so that it really arose out of sort of the change in the direction of the school, and the needs of the students and the families at that time.

Venkat Raman  6:00  

Tell me a little bit about the school before we kind of jump into counseling. What is Seattle Prep today? What, what kind of students does it attract, and any other special things about it?

Sandra F  6:12  [Seattle College Prep]

So one of the things that I actually love about Seattle Prep is that its mission has always been to educate any students who want to go to college. So we actually have a pretty broad range of students academically, they come from over 100 middle schools in the Seattle area. And they, you know, are wide ranging in terms of their abilities from, you know, amazing, you know, amazingly competent students to students who are struggling a little more. And so that's kind of melded together with the Jesuit philosophy because we're a Jesuit High School, trying to help students develop the qualities of understanding social justice and being transformational leaders in the world of people who are going to make a difference in the lives of other people. So there's kind of that dual purpose is going on there, both the educational, and the personal, you know, really trying to help people develop into the kinds of people that will make a difference in the world we live in. So that's what I love about the school. And I love that the goal has always been to help every student who wants to go to college to be able to go to college.

Venkat Raman  7:27  

So, so how many, how many students how big is a school?

Sandra F  7:31  

So we have almost 800 students, and that we can't really grow any bigger than that we're, we're in the middle of Seattle on Capitol Hill. Okay, a little bit landlocked. So that's about our capacity. And I also think in terms of our mission, that's about as big as the school wants to be. So it's a it's a hard school to get into, in a lot of ways, because we have so many kids from all over who really want to come here. But we've been able to kind of manage staying at about 800 Students really, per year in grades nine through 12.

Venkat Raman  8:09  

Let's talk about counseling. I mean, you obviously were part of the founding team, or you are the founder of this whole group. What's your role today? And how do you see your role? And then we can talk a little bit about the counseling philosophy.

Sandra F  8:24  [Role at the School]

Sure, sure. And to be clear, I wasn't really the founder, I was just part of the team that helped develop this, okay. Because I want to be clear about that. I the way that our our program works, we actually have basically two teams that work together. So we have a team of college counselors, so myself and another person who are full time. And then we have three full time regular school counselors. So those counselors work with the students all through their four years. But we picked up with them in their junior year beginning of junior year. So and we focus specifically on the college process and working with the students and their families to kind of help them through that process. And then we partner with the school counselors around any other concerns that may arise or in supporting students in other ways as well. But our main function is focused on school counseling, I mean, on college counseling, excuse me.

Venkat Raman  9:21  

Sure. What roughly 200 students per grade. So,

Sandra F  9:26  

Right. So we have a pretty big caseload. So yes, you know, I work with about 100 seniors and about 100 juniors. And there's sort of a rhythm to the whole process. So we basically start working with students at the beginning of junior year, and we work with them in group settings to begin with. We work with parents also at the beginning and do some parent meetings with the parents. And then we actually have a family meeting with every student and their parents. And we do quite a bit of preparation for that meeting, we have the students and the families do preparation. And that's sort of the beginning of a relationship and a process that then persists all the way through the end of their senior year, when they finally make a decision about where they're going to go.

Venkat Raman  10:17  

You know, I'm sure you've developed a philosophy or style and approach to all this, you know, what would that be? What is that like?

Sandra F  10:26  [Approach to College Counseling]

Our the most important, I think, philosophical part of what we do is just our belief that, it's really important for students to get to know as much as they can about themselves, and then to find a range of schools where they might be happy, and that might work for them and for their families. So rather than starting with a list of schools, we try to help them start with learning about themselves and learning about a variety of different kinds of colleges. And then we're trying to really educate them about understanding the admissions process and making sure that their ultimate list of schools really contain a lot of schools that they are really excited about, and where they have a really good opportunity to be admitted.

Venkat Raman  11:21  

You know, obviously, things have changed over the years. What are some big things that you think have changed, you know, maybe with students compared to maybe a couple of decades ago, and now? You know, and then, of course, post COVID, during COVID, and post COVID? I mean, that's probably another range of changes. So some, yeah. Yeah,

Sandra F  11:47  [Changes over the Years]

I think, you know, some of the things that stand out to me are that, number one, there's become an increasing number of students who are actually applying to college. So the result of that, of course, is that the college admissions process has definitely become more competitive. And we see that a lot when we meet with parents, honestly, because the admissions picture is so different now than when they went to college or when they apply for college. And so they're often pretty surprised about how hard some schools are to get into. I think that that's put a lot of pressure on students to have to kind of up their game in terms of their curriculum and the things they're involved in. And so there's, there's sort of this tension between kind of having a healthy and productive high school experience, and making sure that you do the things that make you admissible to the schools. And so that that's a change and definitely a challenge. I think also, managing expectations has changed over time. So the student, you know, it can be difficult for students, I think, and for parents, to come to terms with the idea that maybe this set of colleges that they've heard of and they've dreamt about, may not work out for them. And so, as a counselor working with these students and families, it's sort of a delicate, balancing act between offering them hope and encouraging them to look at some viable and realistic options. And yet, you know, helping them have a realistic understanding of what the admissions picture really looks like. And that's I think, probably one of the toughest parts of our job, honestly, is that we don't want to be, we don't want to be the office where dreams go to die. We don't want to be downers. But we also want to make sure they're empowered with really good information so they can end up you know, having a lot of options that are really good for them. So I think that over time, one of the things that's changed is just the need for college counselors to really help students and families deal with stress and anxiety around the whole process. Because it's, it's definitely more anxiety producing than it ever was. I think another thing that's changed is, the process is actually gotten more complex. So helping them navigate, the application process itself can be sometimes confusing or overwhelming for them. And keeping up with all of the changes in terms of what schools are requiring, and what's going to be helpful to them. I think that's a large part of what we do, and try to build enough structure in the process so that it's less stressful for students. So I think you know, that's, unfortunately it is anxiety producing and trying to help them less than that and learn to deal with that a little bit better, is something that has changed and that's something that we have to do, do more and more. A good example just little things that change that kind of catch students by surprise, for example, the increasing number of schools that now want students to self report all of their grades. Yeah. And that's not always super obvious to them when they're applying. So we do a lot of that, I would say that one thing that college counselors can do to really help students, and that students feel is really helpful to them, we curate a lot of information for them. Right? Just so that they don't have to do that. But I think those are changes. I think there's a lot of pressure that students feel to try to know what they want to major in or what they want to do professionally. And it that doesn't really line up in a lot of ways with where students are developmentally. So I think that puts a lot of pressure on kids. And then your second part of the question was about the COVID. Right? Yeah. I mean, obviously, the biggest one, I think that everyone talks about all the time, is the test optional, right? Yes. Yeah, how that's affected, I have to say that, from my perspective, I feel that that has actually lessened anxiety for a lot of students. So, you know, we the conversation we have is certainly about knowing the handful of schools that really do want to see test scores. Yeah. Understanding, though that the majority do not require them. And then helping students to try to determine whether or not taking a test and sending a test is going to be a value add for them. And the metrics we usually look at and helping them do that we look at their history with standardized testing, are they a person who can to do well? Or is this a really hard piece for them? Then we look at their their list of schools and their grades. And a good example would be I would say, we have many students who are excellent students, they have mostly A's, but they're not great test takers. Right? Then the question would be, is it really worth the time and the money and stress? Road? Or would they be better off, putting their focus more on their academics and their activities and other things that really do enhance their application? And we probably, I would say this in this past year, what we saw, the 30% of our seniors actually took the test, or maybe only 10% of those actually submitted them. So we're really seeing and people are anxious about that. I have to say, I mean, you know, we tell them, it's going to be okay. But I think people you know, there's a lot of there's not a lot of transparency around this. And so people worry, you know, they worry, is it really true that their test optional, I can say that looking at our own data, which we look at all the time, we're seeing pretty good results for the test optional kids. In fact, we see some kids getting into schools like Swathmore work, we don't really see happen that often who are getting in, I think precisely because test scores were not a barrier.

Venkat Raman  18:08  

Okay. Yeah, that was gonna be my question. You know, there's a lot of angst around exactly what you said, they really test optional. And then it's providing a test score, likely to tilt the balance in your favor, I mean, assuming it's good. And so yeah, so you're saying basically, that you really, at least the outcomes are such that it looks like it is really test optional, was kind of what you're saying?

Sandra F  18:34  [COVID Impact]

I think so. I mean, there are those kids who do really test well. And for those kids, we do encourage them to take a test and to submit it if they have a good test score. Also, I would say the other group for whom it can be a benefit are kids who maybe underperformed in high school twice, but are good test takers, and they can kind of show they have more ability than their GPA might show. So we work with kids individually to try to make that determination. But what I'm seeing is that for a good number of kids who, again, are good students, but maybe not great test takers, it just takes a piece of anxiety off the table for them. And that has been a really good thing. So I think that's something about the pandemic that actually turned out to be on the whole better than not good. I also think another thing that arose out of the pandemic that has been a positive is just the increase in virtual resources for kids and families. So they can really do a virtual tour to a virtual information session, zoom with an admissions person, and none of that replaces seeing something in person, but for a lot of families who have limited resources. It's a great way to start the process. They can at least do that preliminary resource research to see what really appeals to them. Um, and then target some of their visits, you know, more specifically to schools that really are schools they're interested in. So I think that's been a good, you know, a good outcome. I think you know, that the challenges have obviously been the disruption to people's lives. And so you know, that students, I think, fall into two main categories, there definitely are students who did better during the pandemic, actually, academically, because they enjoyed being on Zoom, they enjoy, you know, being able to take a nap between their classes they enjoy, they benefited maybe from not being so over, scheduled, you know, with activities, and then there are other kids who I think, found it harder who either emotionally, it was just a real downer for them to be on their own all the time, or that didn't learn as well, you know, in that virtual format. So it's kind of been both, depending on the students, you know, in terms of how that affected them.

Venkat Raman  21:12  

How do you how do you treat kids, Who are kind of undecided? What they want to apply for? I mean, what kind of major? What a, what's your sort of attitude towards that? And how do you how do you think should deal with it?

Sandra F  21:28  [About Undeclared Majors]

Well, we try to do first of all, it's, I find that even if they think they know what they want to major in the majority of their mind when they're in college, unfortunately, there are some colleges, that it really makes a difference which major you apply for. So we really try to current with colleges, especially colleges, that a lot of our kids apply to, in terms of their seeing a good example would be the University of Washington, we have a lot of things, obviously, who applied to the University of Washington, and the University of Washington has a system where they have designated majors as either open enrollment, minimum requirements, or capacity constraint. And so then the conversation becomes in a school like that, do you really want to go to the UW? Or are you don't want to go there unless you can major in engineering kind of thing. So that that becomes a conversation, we do try to help kids at least figure out what their interests are. And so for our case, we have them do a career profiler and aptitude survey called the Youth Science, which gives them some information. And then I mean, honestly, this is where college counselors can be helpful to kids, because we do sort of counsel them school by school, you know, with regard to, you know, how big their desire is to get into that school, what the options are, with regard to different majors, and how easy it is to change your major once you're there. So sure, so that becomes a little more personalized. So it's tricky, though, because they, I just had a conversation with a school in California, it's a school where we had been advising kids that, for example, engineering would be a really competitive major. Well, they've actually seen a downturn in some applications to the engineering major. And we were seeing in our early results, some kids getting into engineering at that school, who had lower academic profiles, and some kids who applied to psychology, for example. So it can vary quite a bit. And so that's part of the challenge is trying to figure out you know, what's going on. And I'm seeing I don't know what you're seeing, but I'm seeing with a lot of schools, this fear that as a means of Enrollment Management, they are focusing much more on major and more concerned about taking a lot of kids in, and then not being able to give them the course of study that they say they want. And the hard part here, a lot of those kids are just putting something down because they have to. Yeah, right. So this puts down psychology. He may be just as happy studying philosophy. Who knows? I don't think they know honestly. But it's interesting because I that's an example that I saw this year where we had some kids who put something like philosophy and were admitted over other kids who were stronger students who maybe put psychology and we're not. Yeah, so even with arts and sciences, we're seeing that so. So it's it's I think it's a tricky area because I think it's a lot to expect 17 year olds to know what they want to major in.

Venkat Raman  24:53  

I was just curious and would love to hear what kind of advice you would have for high school students out They're, you know, as they're thinking about college and applying, what are, the what are some of the things you tell them to do?

Sandra F  25:09  [Advice for High Schoolers]

One of the things that, you know, we kind of think about it developmentally here a little bit. I mean, one of the things that we tell them is, when you're a freshman and a sophomore in high school, really focus on getting solid with your academics, and getting involved in some things that you genuinely enjoy and love. Don't worry about college, so much worry about high school. So that's one of the things we advise. And we also, we encourage families, for example, you know, if you're traveling with your high school students and want to stop and see some colleges, that's great. But don't embark on a formal college search, when you're a freshman in high school, focus your energies on building a strong academic record, getting involved in things that you enjoy, because it's going to be the fact that your academic record is going to be the centerpiece of your application no matter what. So that's one of the things we advise, then the other things we would advise students is that when they do begin researching colleges, again, to place to focus on knowing themselves, and learning a lot about different kinds of schools. So don't start with a list of schools and try to fit into them, start with yourself and things you enjoy, and try to find schools that will be a match for you. And be broad in that search. And so we kind of help students look at, you know, obviously, we help them look at schools from the perspective of admissions as well. And so, you know, we're looking at those reach schools, the target schools and the likely schools, and we try to get them to focus a lot on the target schools, schools, where it's not a sure thing, but they have a pretty decent chance of being an editor. And they have a lot of good characteristics that that student would like so so we we, you know, one piece of advice would be choose the right schools for your list, you know, work on keeping a strong academic record, get to know your teachers throughout high school, because eventually, a couple of those teachers are going to be writing your recommendation. And if you know your teachers, well, you'll do a better job of choosing people who would be a good recommender for you. And, and the other thing I would say is, you know, two other things I would say that I think are important one would be, seek out support, you know, don't be afraid to ask for help if you need it along the way, in any dimension. Like if you are struggling in a class, ask your teacher for help use your school's resources to get help, don't wait, you know, and let your grades go down the drain. Yeah, talk to your counselors, talk to your teachers, talk to your parents, talk to adults in your life and other people who can give you valuable advice and support along the way. And then I think something else that's really important is, you know, be yourself, don't try to be someone you're not you just to have an admissions committee be who you are. And the kids that come across the best, I think in the admissions process are kids who have genuinely done things that they really enjoy and passions that they really have. And that's obvious when you talk to them, you know, so just, I always remind students that the majority of people who are actually reading these applications are pretty young. So people closer to their age than to mine. So I think, you know, they really can recognize genuineness, you know, in a way that is important for kids to know, you know, have their friends, you have a friend read over what you write and see if that sounds like you. But I think that's important to just genuinely come across as yourself, and come at this whole process from what you enjoy, and what you hope to do as a person. So those would be my main pieces of advice for kids.

Venkat Raman  29:04  

So Sandra, we're going to start winding down. And before I let you go, one thing that comes through is a lot of passion in your voice. So after all these decades, what keeps you so excited? What do you really love about what you're doing?

Sandra F  29:21  [Staying Excited]

Yeah, there are a lot of things I love about it. But one thing that I love, is I love the opportunity to work with a diverse group of students. I really there are so many kids, it just amazes me honestly, how many kids you know how different a lot of these students are from one another and the things that they they love and the different goals and challenges they have. So it's it's rewarding to help kids navigate the process because there's so many different kids with different points of view. And I really liked that. Seeing students succeed, I mean, it doesn't matter. You know, if it's somebody getting into an Ivy League school or somebody getting into it You'd up Boffo, which is close to us. I'm just excited for them, when they are able to kind of figure this out and find some options that are exciting to them, and they're looking forward to that. I think another thing that keeps me really going as I really, I like staying up to date with all the changes that are going on, yeah, constantly evolving, you know, and it's, I think it's really important to stay informed about new policies and new procedures and new opportunities. And so that and also collaborating with colleagues, I find this work, very collaborative, both in terms of working with my other high school side colleagues, working with college side colleagues, just working with people who can make a difference in the lives of students. And so I and I feel really strongly that college counseling does have a really significant impact on the futures of students. And so being able to play even a small role in that is something that keeps me going.

Venkat Raman  31:05  

Sounds awesome. I mean, clearly, clearly, it comes through. So, Sandra, thank you so much for taking the time and sharing your points of view and all your excitement and passion about counseling. I definitely would like to talk to you more in the future, but for right now, take care. Be safe. Thank you so much.

Sandra F  31:24  

Thank you have a good day.

Venkat Raman  31:26  

You too. Bye. Bye.

—---------------

Venkat  31:33

Hi again!

Hope you enjoyed our podcast with Sandra Foy of Seattle Prep.

Sandra’s approach for counseling has been shaped by her experience over the last few decades:

  • Help a Student get to learn, as much as they can, about themselves;
  • Work with Parents and Families of Students;
  • Manage Expectations;
  • With the Goal, Help every student that wants to go to college, to be able to go to college.

I hope college-bound students and parents find Sandra’s counsel helpful.

For your questions or comments on this podcast, please email podcast at almamatters.io [podcast@almamatters.io].

Thank you all so much for listening to our podcast today.

Transcripts for this podcast and previous podcasts are on almamatters.io forward slash podcasts [almamatters.io/podcasts].

To stay connected with us, Subscribe to Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts or Spotify or visit anchor.fm forward slash almamatters [anchor.fm/almamatters] to check us out.

Till we meet again, take care and be safe.

Thank you!

Summary Keywords

Podcast for High Schoolers, US Colleges, College Podcast, High School Counselor, High School Students, College Counseling, College Admissions, College Application, Extracurricular, Applying to US Colleges, Seattle Prep, Advice for High School Students,Managing Expectations, Applying Early, Dream Colleges.


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