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Podcast

Episode Notes | Transcript | AskTheGuest

 Hi Fives (5 Highlights)   Click for 3-Minute Listen

Sean Kennedy is the Co-Director of College Counseling at Ravenscroft School in Raleigh, North Carolina.

Sean’s approach for counseling has been shaped by his experience over the last few decades:

  • Be an Advocate and Support Students;
  • Help the students understand themselves & their talents better;
  • Manage Expectations;
  • Celebrate their outcomes!

Hi-Fives from the Podcast are:

  1. Why Counseling?
  2. Approach to College Counseling
  3. “The Why” behind Activities
  4. Challenges
  5. Role of AI

Episode Notes

Episode Title: Sean Kennedy of Ravenscroft School on College Counseling: Pathway to Developing Student’s Potential.

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Sean Kennedy’s counseling journey had its origins in High School. Inspired by the impact his High School College Counselor had on him, he jumped at a counseling role early in his career.

Sean Kennedy is the Co-Director of College Counseling at Ravenscroft School, as well as an active member of ACCIS, SACAC and other professional organizations.

On our podcast, Sean talks about his background, Ravenscroft School, Counseling approach & philosophy, the challenges, managing expectations, and his advice for high school students.

In particular, we discuss the following with him:

  • Sean Kennedy’s Background
  • Approach to College Counseling
  • Challenges & Managing Expectations
  • Advice for High Schoolers

Topics discussed in this episode:

  • Introducing Sean Kennedy, Ravenscroft School [0:37]
  • Hi Fives - Podcast Highlights [1:44]
  • Professional Background [4:55]
  • Why Counseling? [6:38]
  • Ravenscroft School [8:16]
  • Role at the School [9:38]
  • Approach to College Counseling [12:33]
  • Challenges [19:51]
  • Shifts to Equity and Access [28:13]
  • Managing Expectations [30:56]
  • Guidance for High Schoolers [36:16]
  • Staying Excited [44:39]

Our Guest: Sean Kennedy is the Co-Director of College Counseling at Ravenscroft School in Raleigh, North Carolina.

Memorable Quote: “But no matter what, no matter what those outcomes produced, I think to me, it's, again, how I, I can control. How I show up for students, and that even when there are questions that I can't answer, that they know that I'm committed to finding the answer.” Sean Kennedy.

Episode Transcript: Please visit Episode’s Transcript.

Recommended Episodes: College Experiences

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Episode Transcript

Transcript of the episode’s audio.

<Start Snippet> Sean K  0:14  

The cool thing about students is that that energy and curiosity that sense of invulnerability, the hunger and the eagerness they have to think about their future. And to be a part of that is really is really very inspiring.

Venkat  0:37  [Introducing Sean Kennedy, Ravenscroft School]

That is Sean Kennedy, Co-Director of College Counseling at Ravenscroft School in Raleigh, North Carolina.

Hello, I am your host, Venkat Raman.

Sean Kennedy’s counseling journey had its origins in High School.

Inspired by the impact, his High School College Counselor had on him, his peers and their families, he jumped at a counseling role early in his career.

His professional journey has taken him on a tour to different parts of the school system and to a number of schools.

Sean is a very active member of professional organizations of counselors.

Venkat Raman  1:26

On our podcast, Sean talks about his background, Ravenscroft School, Counseling approach & philosophy, the challenges, managing expectations, and his advice for high school students.

Before we jump into the podcast, here are the Hi-Fives,  Five Highlights from the podcast:

Sean K 1:44  [Highlights - Hi Fives]

[Why Counseling?]

an awesome college counselor named Carol Bernstein, who was a great advocate and guide to me and my family. And I remember that being just fascinated by how her her role at that particular time in my life and in the lives of my peers, served so pivotal in helping us move in that transition between high school and college.

[Approach to College Counseling]

But what what has always been important to me and something that I'm continuing to refine in my practice, even all these years since I began is the idea of being a partner and advocate for my students. You know, the work, you know whether the outcomes that they hoped for arrive or not, that I always want my students to know that I'm there to support them.

[“The Why” behind Activities]

Very rarely do colleges ask in their applications Why students have done the things that they have done? Why were you? Why did you become the president of the Spanish club? Why did you continue playing? Golf? Why did you continue to play the oboe? And so, to me, I really try to get students to think a great deal about that Why?

 

[Challenges]

Because universities probably get the most amount of attention, those that are in that highly selective or selective range. I use the the the balance of, you know, between ambition and reality. You know, it's very easy to fall in love with a name or a brand. But getting students to look past the name to what is it about the university that actually is right for you.

[Role of AI]

The use of AI you're gonna read essays Yes, with ChatGPT and other other similar AI bots that will be you know, I'm sure will continue to proliferate the reliance on those without alteration that's I think a concern for me because you can you know, if you play with those, you can get a decent essay written by those. It won't write a great essay.

Venkat Raman  4:24

These were the Hi5s, brought to you by “College Matters. Alma Matters.”

Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

Venkat Raman  4:36

Now, I'm sure you want to hear the entire podcast with Sean.

So without further ado, here's the podcast with Sean Kennedy!

-----------------

Venkat Raman  4:46  

So if you're ready, we can jump right in.

Sean K  4:49  

Absolutely.

Venkat Raman  4:50  

Cool. So maybe the best place to start is a little bit about your background.

Sean K  4:55  [Professional Background]

Sure. So my professional background I've had, had about nearly 25 years of experience in secondary and higher education in a wide variety of roles. So I began my career in education as a high school English teacher, and from there moved into teaching high school, English, and even a little bit of undergraduate Freshman Composition while I was in graduate school, being a high school principal and administrator. So a wide variety of roles.

But college advising has always been something that has been a part of my jobs really, since my second year in, you know, in my career, so, and that's that spanned working in three schools, two in North Carolina, and one in California. And I was also had the good fortune to be a an admission, first year freshman admission reader for UCLA in the early 2000s. And so in and amongst those, those various roles have also had the good fortune to be of service in a couple of professional organizations, including the Southern Association for college admission counseling, and the Association for college counselors in independent schools.

Venkat Raman  6:25  

So yeah, so it sounds like you've had a lot of rich and varied experience in the school system. So what was it about counseling that you think drew you towards it?

Sean K  6:38  [Why Counseling?]

Well, I attended Chadwick school in Palos Verdes in Southern California. And I had an awesome college counselor named Carol Bernstein, who was a great advocate and guide to me and my family. And I remember that being just fascinated by how her her role at that particular time in my life and in the lives of my peers, served so pivotal in helping us move in that transition between high school and college, which I developed this fascination for. And so when, at the end of my first year, as a full time teacher at Army and Navy Academy in San Diego, an opportunity to assume a an administrative role that involved academic advising and college counseling came, came available.

And so again, I drew a lot from my background as a high school student in positioning myself to be able to assume that role and really haven't looked back since and I think it's continued to be a really rewarding, rewarding experience. So I think a combination of both having a, a great role model and then subsequently, the ability to work with such amazing people as as I was new in the profession, and have valuable mentors is what motivated me to get started and that has has kept me in it since.

Venkat Raman  8:14  

Tell us about the school you're in right now.

Sean K  8:16  [Ravenscroft School]

Yeah, Ravenscroft school is a co educational independent Day School in Raleigh, North Carolina, serves over 1200 students in grades pre K through 12. We have about 470 students that are just in grades nine through 12. My, our students are bright and engaged and active and tons and tons of things, as most teenagers are these days. And one of the cool things I think about our students is that as it relates to college advising is they are open to looking all over the US and abroad for colleges that fit their interests. While they may be, you know, from North Carolina, and obviously, the cod college landscape in our state is really, really robust, and that they, with the support of their parents will look at all the states in many, many, many countries. And so myself and my colleagues get to explore and help them explore what else, you know, all the various places that are out there that might fit their their college interests.

Venkat Raman  9:35  

So how do you see your role at Ravenscroft?

Sean K  9:38  [Role at the School]

Sure, yeah. Well, I mean, as a co director of College Counseling, first of all, I'm part of a great team of colleagues that, you know, our, our role is really as one piece of the Ravenscroft experience obviously the shin the relationship Epson experienced they have, as students in the classroom with our faculty, colleagues, with their coaches, with their music instructors, with their advisors, we are part of really part of a village that is there to help create a great experience for young people. And something that is hopefully transformational in a manner that leaves them graduating our school, having, you know, be well on their pathway to developing their potential, and to be excited, even though there's always some nerves and anxiousness about the future, but excited and eager and hungry to embrace whatever that that future is. And so for us in college counseling, we spend a lot of time working hand in glove with academic advising the rest helping students with course planning. And then as we begin to get into sort of our curriculum related to college advising, you know, being there to support the students being able to there to support their families, in helping prepare for that transition to life after Ravenscroft, whatever that entails, whether it's immediately a four year institution, which is what the overwhelming majority of our students go to, or whether it's a gap year opportunities, and the rest of that trying to help not be prescriptive, and what we share and provide to the families but really being there to listen and to advise and to counsel on what what is out there. And our school does a great job of supporting our interests in trying to go out there and participate in professional organizations and networking and, and professional development opportunities for counselors so that we are always at the forefront of knowing what's going on in in the college admission landscape. And then to be able to bring that back to our students and families. So they have as timely information as as we do.

Venkat Raman  12:10  

Of course.

Venkat Raman  12:14  

You've been doing this for a few decades. Now you said and you must have developed some sort of approach to counseling, I call it a philosophy or approach. But how do you see it? How do you see that approach? Working with students? What is it and kind of how does it work?

Sean K  12:33  [Approach to College Counseling]

Sure. Well, in you're right that over the over the years that approach and philosophy has changed and evolved quite a bit, I think, obviously, it's become more informed by working in different states and having a wide variety of professional experiences that I think shape and color and adjust and tweak things over the years.

I think probably the clearest way for me to identify what it is, you know, that, you know, my professional journey to the extent that I can now see kind of what my philosophy is, is really about belief and a belief that I have in helping young people cultivate a thoughtful, reflective, well informed pathway between who they are and who they kind of hope to become.

And the people that they will become, and recognizing that higher education is certainly a tremendous vehicle to help them get there. But not just any, not just any institution of higher learning, but ones that fit what their interests are. And so helping them kind of identify what what their hopes are.

And then having them be, you know, be reflective and thoughtful about how they might get to those goals that they've identified for for themselves. So that's probably the clearest way that I can distill. distill that. And I think, you know, most but what what has always been important to me, and something that I'm continuing to refine in my practice, even all these years since I began is the idea of being a partner and advocate for my students. You know, the work, you know, whether the outcomes that they hoped for, arrive or not, that I always want my students to know that I'm there to support them.

And, you know, I can't control acceptance rates as much as I like to. And the college lists sometimes will have outcomes in the rest and we spend a lot of time trying to develop lists with them that create a lot of outcomes and a lot of options for them.

But no matter what, no matter what those outcomes produced I think to me, it's again, how I I can control how I show up for for students and that even when there are questions, that I can't answer that At they know that I'm committed to finding the answer.

And that when things go well, that I'm there to celebrate with them, and when things don't necessarily go their way that I'm there to help them understand what might have happened and to recover and to move forward, recognizing that, you know, sometimes a no doesn't mean as much as they may seem it does as it does to them and try to move forward with a, a much clearer approach.

You know, going forward, I think, also, I really spend a lot more time in recent years helping students focus on the why behind things as much as as the what and so the, you know, if you look at applications, students are asked a lot about things that have already happened. Tell us about this. This favorite activity you've done, list your activities tell us what accolades or positions or titles you held. It's all a very kind of backward looking, factual exchange of information.

But very rarely do colleges ask in their applications, Why students have done the things that they have done? Why were you? Why did you become the president of the Spanish club? Why did you continue playing? Golf? Why did you continue to play the oboe? And so, to me, I really tried to get students to think a great deal about that. Why?

Because that's part of what admission officers when they're trying to envision an applicant as a part of their university community. They're trying to think about what what is it that this student is bringing with them? What are the transferable skills and qualities and values that they've gained from doing all these various things in high school that they're going to bring forward with them? Because so many students don't continue? They all have the same slate of activities they did as a high school student as a collegian. So when they stopped doing those things, what are they then? And if they're a student that has, by virtue of, you know, being a part of a team, okay, what did you get by being a part of that team that helps that would be transferable into a college community where you might be a part of a team in some other respect, but maybe not in the way that you were as a high school student. And, you know, whether whenever you have the ability to share that information that might be in the topics you choose for your essays? You know, again, not, don't just write about all the things you did as the club president, but you can, you know, have some treatment of that. But then what did you get by being there? What did you do? Well, what do you wish you would have done differently?

So reflect a level of humility and how you reflect on your, on what you've learned? And, you know, and the courage, you know, to share that when you, when you have that ability to do so with, with, you know, with admission officers.

Venkat Raman  18:11  

That sounds outstanding. Now, what grade do you start engaging with the students in?

Sean K  18:17  

Primarily in the ninth grade? You know, we're fortunate enough in our school that we can do some limited programming with, with ninth graders. And at that point, where we begin is more a byproduct of helping them not necessarily focus on what test score, they need to have to get into this university. That's, that's not particularly that's not necessarily developmentally appropriate at that point, right. Our focus is on really about what high school represents, you know, this is a chance to, you know, explore new academic interests to develop new extracurricular interests, to connect to faculty and other mentors and people who, whether they're your classroom teachers, or advisors and the rest that can help you that are there for you as part of this journey, and to seize upon those opportunities. And then as we move through our, our curriculum and start to get more focused on more individualized in essence, that's, you know, we see a movement away from that more generalized, you know, instruction and advice for everybody into things that are more specific to each student.

Venkat Raman  19:36  

So what kind of challenges do you face? I mean, you're, you know, obviously, each person is different, each student is different. But everyone is comes wired with their own set of expectations and aspirations.

Sean K  19:51  [Challenges]

Sure, I think one of the things that all of us uniquely in light of how much more selective You know, universities, many universities are not all universities, but a lot of universities that probably get the most amount of attention. Those that are in that highly selective or selective range is the the the balance of, you know, between ambition and reality. You know, it's very easy to fall in love with a name, or a brand.

But getting students to look past the name to what is it about the university that actually is right for you? And that, yes, the you know, it might be great that the university is prestigious and has a wonderful reputation, but do they offer the programs that you want? Do they offer you in both whether it's academic terms of majors or concentrations, but also extracurricular opportunities in the rest. And often as students dig into the minutia a little bit more, and are able to articulate, okay, I like this about I like these things about this university, they may still retain an a strong interest in that really, really, really selective place.

But part of what we also then look to try to find is to help them say, okay, you can find those things that you want, in many, many, many other institutions that don't also reject 97% of their applicants. And so to have, like, let's be ambitious, you know, it's always been your dream to apply to that ultra selective school, let's go for it. And let's talk about how you put forward the best application, you can, while we also and look at adding other schools to that list that give you options, because it's very, very easy these days for a student to apply in such a manner that they leave themselves, no options, right out that there is not that balance between ambition with reality.

And so I think that that's always that's a challenge for all counselors, on an annual basis, working with tricky working with high achieving students that are, you know, conditioned and told by a lot of a lot of resources and a lot of media helmets. And the rest of that, here are the places that are going to, you know, here are the places you should apply and that are really selected, because these are the ones that are going to suggest that you are as exceptional as you are, and lose sight of and unfortunately, lose sight of the fact that there are a lot of places you can go to and still become that. So I think that that's a I think that's a baseline challenge for counselors.

I think as you zoom out to the cap, you know, College Admission Counseling industry and landscape, which now, you know, if you in aggregate, you know, is over a billion dollars, in terms of all of the various entities that are that make up that I think part of what you begin to see is that this industry has has changed a great deal. You know, in in, in 1961, Eisenhower, you know, popularized the term military industrial complex to kind of describe the state of affairs in the United States, I think it's fair to look when you look at the state of the industry, involving college admissions to suggest that it's a commercial and psychometric marketplace, that you know, and all of which is created by humans, you know, but that it is it's not a system as it might be in other in other countries where a particular exam result means that you have access to a certain subset of schools and the rest and that there's no ambiguity in the rest to it. There is ambiguity in our process.

And that marketplace rather, so rather than it being a system that works in a systematic fashion, it functions like a marketplace where your students have a wide variety of choice and not only how they apply, but where they apply when they apply the influence of testing on how and where students can apply the influence of commercial entities that exist within the space of college admissions to support and guide and provide, you know, items and tools and resources. Normally, if you put all of that together, it's very quick, you lose sight of the fact that this is you know, very often a, you know, an older adolescent. Yeah, and trying to figure out where it is that they want to continue their education in, you know, among the 3000 plus degree granting institutions in the United States. Not to mention those beyond not to mention the two year college, the Technical and Community College landscape that is really incredibly robust. In our country, it's very easy to lose sight of all that and be overwhelmed by it.

And so I see that that the presence of that marketplace and how dominant commercial commercial interests have become in that marketplace, since it to me feels like there's a sense of that balance between, you know, the art and science involved in college admissions beginning to shift a little bit more away from the art beginning to shift away a little bit more from the humanity in that is that that is, has been present, and that is present. And that that focus of the humanity of the participants involved in the process. I mean, you think about a handful of a handful of items, you know, the application volumes are soaring.

Yeah, but at the same time, admission, office staffs are not necessarily growing. And in some cases, they are declining, which means that those those humans that are tasked with reading and evaluating applications are expected to do more work with less time with fewer people. And, you know, all of that comes down to when you're thinking when, you know, and I talk to students a lot about how much time is actually spent with our applications? Yeah, those those staffing shortages, you know, our direct relation to a decrease in the amount of time and engagement with applications which, which is worrisome. You know, and so, you know, universities have to adjust and adapt. Sometimes there are processes in order to be able to meet the demands of application deadlines and releases, while still doing it as thoughtfully as possible. That that's, that's certainly a concern, you know, we saw in, you know, a few years ago, and even to some degree to the state predatory student lending practices, you know, populations that were really hard hit by that include military veterans, you know, there's a great documentary, and it came out in 2017, called fail state that really looked into predatory lending practices, you know, here's Peter, people that are trying to leverage their their life experience and military experience to gain higher education. And, you know, they were looked at as profit centers, more so than more so than people, you know, needing you know, and wanting a great education coming up this June, you know, the upcoming Supreme Court decision related to race conscious admissions, you know, we don't know yet. You know, what that outcome will be it could limit the use of of race as an admission factor, or it could eliminate it altogether. But whatever, you know, it certainly stands to reason that a very critical elements of an applicant's humanity might be removed from the process.

So those I think those are those are challenges.

Sean K  28:13  [Shifts to Equity and Access]

Good thing that that I'm certainly again, we talk about shifts and changes is the the initiatives that people that are connected to the process that work within the process that are working to try to center that humanity and admissions through efforts related to equity and access, scrutiny and examination of components of the admission process based on research and data to try to make more data informed decisions about you know, are the things that have always historically been a part of the admission process. Are those things equitable? Are they creating access? Or are they simply perpetuating barriers to higher education? I think we're also looking at recruiting efforts for underrepresented and marginalized populations. I mean, a great example if you think about the work that I do some advising and support of students in rural settings with a colleague of mine and, and by virtue of that we've seen where major major high select highly selective institutions from metropolitan areas are focusing efforts to try to find and support rural students whether they ever ended up matriculating to their to those highly selective urban universities or not still the idea that they would take the time and devote resources to going into those populations and those communities, whether it's regardless of socio economics, you know, location proximity to urban centers or not, that there are people invested in people and dollars invested in supporting students no matter where they are. So yes, there's There's a there's a dynamic tension between forces that are drawing it away from the humanity. But thankfully, there's also a really, really strong pull to skip and center the humans that are in this process and make this truly student and applicants centered.

Venkat Raman  30:21  

I think I think that's, that's great. I mean, I think the challenges and the landscape that you laid out, is spot on now.

Venkat Raman  30:32  

People are focused on the ones [colleges] that, you know, the media and so on, so forth. And the rankings sort of drive maybe 50 or 100 [college] names?

Or how do you get people to sort of look at this beyond just the names, you know, more in terms of getting it into their heads that, you know, these are all good choices?

Sean K  30:56  [Managing Expectations]

Right? Well, first of all, I mean, I think for those that are the most highly selective or ultra selective, you can qualify it however, you wish, you know, is to remind them that they are, these are global applicant pools. And I think it's very easy to look at and say, Well, I'm the valedictorian or the salutatory. And or I'm one of the top students at my school. And that means that there's a spot for me, in said, university, that's not really how it works. You know, if anything, you know, in the United States, there are something like 40,000 secondary schools that graduate students eligible to go to college. Well, there aren't 40,000 places in the applicant, you know, in the incoming freshman classes of, you know, Ivy League schools and add a handful of others that have a great deal of international and a tremendous international reputation. So there's not even room for the valedictorian of every school in right.

And I never forget, several years ago, I had a young man who had the great fortune was a tremendous young man who was admitted, restrictive early action to Yale, and at the time, Yale had this map, in the in this sort of Admitted Student Portal that showed where the other restrictive early applicants that were admitted, hailed from, and I remember, he was one of two dots in the state of North Carolina. And that's an eye that gave me a moment of pause to begin with, because there were so many wonderful, wonderful students at some wonderful institutions, you know, high schools that are in there that for whatever reason, he was one of the two, but then as you zoomed out across the world, you know, there was a student from Madagascar, there were students from New Zealand, you know, it, you began to get this impression that this very, very, very small number of students was drawn from the world, not just the best at this high school. And that's a It's a humbling sort of perspective to provide, but it's really critical that students understand that, and it's not just at, you know, the top 20 schools, you know, however students figure that yeah, we're the brands that are known best that, you know, all institutions, even public institutions.

You know, I grew up in California, the University of California system, you know, arguably, you know, the most widely regarded and respected public Institute, public university system in the world is, you know, is in our international campuses, you know, and they are, they're recruiting faculty and employees, and administrators and students, all to try to make it world class. And you will become world class by looking to expand your borders, beyond your local proximity and whatever that entails. And so, I think that I tried to provide that perspective to say, so, you know, as long as you understand that, then now let's talk about, you know, why what it is that some of those students that might be successful moving forward, that looking beyond your context, that excellence in your local context, as a high school student, is certainly very, very important.

But one of the things that we see is a growing I don't wanna say need or expectation, perhaps, too, that students that are desirous of admission to those more selective places have distinguished themselves in an era in ways beyond their local context that might be regionally it might be nationally, it might be beyond, again, it might be that and that and that could be in athletics, it could be in the arts, it could be in research could be in writing, you know, it could be in service, that that becomes more wore, you know, more significant to successful applicants than it may have been may have been in the past.

And so I think, again, trying to provide some of those updates to families, so that they recognize that, okay, you know, that shouldn't deter a student, perhaps from pursuing admission to those places. But to pursue it in a manner where they're aware of that, and that, again, back to what I was saying before, like, be ambitious. But then let's also develop a little bit more to the other end of the spectrum to provide make sure that you provide yourself options from which to choose, at whatever point that, that becomes necessary in the process.

Venkat Raman  35:41  

What would you tell this students about the upcoming application? I mean, how do you deal with this whole post pandemic situation, if you can call it that, you know, this test optional? This, you mentioned, the Supreme Court's impending decision. And there are other factors and of course, cost is another huge factor, you know, financial aid, scholarships and all that. So what are some of the, you know, approaches one can take? How, how should the students sort of approach all this?

Sean K  36:16  [Guidance for High Schoolers]

Yeah, well, I think there, I mean, there are a number of things that are coming. I mean, first and foremost, I think about the research and education, I mean, this, when I think back to my college search process, I sent in a postcard to a college to receive a paper based book, or review book and potentially a course catalog. And that was the extent of the information I had about a college, there may be a data guide somewhere in the rest.

So this the, you know, students in this generation have access to an extraordinary amount of information, both that's about the universities, produced by others, but most importantly, produced by the universities themselves. In the pandemic, when it compromised, the in person visiting significantly, a lot of schools had to look at how it is that they reach students to share their stories in a virtual manner.

And that I think has done has really helped from helped balance the equity and access in that to a place where no matter where you are, hopefully, as long as you can have an internet connection, you can engage with these universities, through visit virtual visit opportunities, virtual information sessions, Virtual Engagement and chat sessions with with university offers in a manner that never requires you to actually go to the campus, there's still no substitute for an in person visit. But that can be expensive and costly to families that do not have those resources. So I really like how much those virtual programs are developed and have also remained by schools, because those are really a great way for students to continue to learn about, learn about universities of interest to them.

I think the, the landscape of test optional, you know, I think each year is, is we see shifts and changes I think the majority of universities still have that are out there still have a test optional approach or test flexible approach. I think fair test.org is a great website resource for students to get up to date information about exactly what places are test optional and what their policies are. We we continue to advise students to consider testing because there may be occasions where if their testing is strong enough that it can still benefit them. But we also are in a position where we are advising students to even if we're they're advising them to take to sit for the LSAT or AC T that we may be at a position later on. If they're testing just doesn't emerge to be as strong as they hoped for the places of interest that then we then have a conversation about whether to provide the test or not. So we're still, you know, a couple of years in we're still seeing a mixture of you know, strong, you know, strong value of the testing, but that is not widespread. There are places that have very much when they say test optional, it means test optional, and that a student's evaluation is not compromised by the absence of that factor in in the process.

You know, I think we are seeing, you know, when you think about the value of applying early that continue, I haven't we haven't really seen a dramatic change in that other than just that it continues to increase steadily in insignificance as sort of an expression of love and affection for these universities. And that, you know, I think if you're looking at private colleges that have that, you know, a binding early plan or restrictive plan, or even a, even an early action plan, that those are that, you know, there's, that's to a statistically significant difference in the Accept rates for those, we absolutely the case at really highly selective liberal arts colleges that have really small applicant volumes, where, you know, you may see a miniscule number of applicants admitted early, and, you know, but a huge volume of applicants for, again, an equally small group of students later on.

I think the, you know, the, there's still a lot of talk about rankings, and ranking methodology and the rest, I don't spend a whole lot of time utilizing those with students. You know, I think I always encourage students, anytime you see a ranking is to look at the methodology and what makes up the methodology, and how those change. And the rest, you know, the rankings are a resource, but they should not be the only resource when students who are looking to build a list of colleges, it needs to be informed by far more things, you know, more, first and foremost, the student thinking about what's important to them, and doing research with, you know, university provided materials, and of course, with guidance from, you know, school counselors, community based organizations focused on college access, and other resources of that sort.

I do think one of the things that is, I'll be really fascinated, and, you know, and we'll probably be discussing a great deal with our students. Is the, the use of AI. Yeah, generate essays. Yes, with chat GPT and other other similar AI bots, that will be, you know, I'm sure will continue to proliferate the reliance on those without alteration. That's, I think, a concern for me, because you can, you know, if you, you play with those, you can get a decent essay written by those, it won't write a great essay that is going to be heavily personalized about the reasons for things. So I think it's not a panacea, it's not a shortcut. Because I do think that without alteration without personalization, they stand to, you know, not be, maybe it might be a solid essay, or a good one, but not a great one.

Yeah, so my hope is that students don't blindly rely on the convenience of artificial intelligence in generating essays, because it may not yield the success that they hope it was, you know, they're there, that they really still need to continue to invest the time and energy into writing thoughtful, original work of their own in their own voice and about them, that that will still be the best path forward.

So those are a variety of the things that I think we, you know, we think about when you know, life after the pandemic, as or at least as it's beginning to kind of recede.

And then, you know, I think until, until we know, with the the Supreme Court decision about how race will play a factor in, in admissions going forward from that point, it's tough to know how best to advise students, particularly students of color, who's, you know, whose their ethnicity and race will may not be incorporated into their evaluation in the manner that had had before but that will certainly be something to pay attention to.

Venkat Raman  44:18  

So Sean,, we're going to start winding down but before I let you go, you know, you've been doing this for a couple of decades. There's so much excitement and passion in your voice and there's, you know, you're thinking about big things, small things, strategic, tactical. What, What keeps you excited, every day?

Sean K  44:39  [Staying Excited]

Ah, honestly, student energy and curiosity. I mean, I think you know, I'm getting older, every year this goes by and this process ages ages, myself and those of us that are involved in it, whether it's on the high school side, or the college side or the you know, you know, no matter where, no matter where it is, but The cool thing about students is that that energy and curiosity, that sense of invulnerability, the hunger and the eagerness they have to think about their future. And to be a part of that is really is really very inspiring.

Alternatively, those students that are very apprehensive about that future that have for whatever reason, their experience has led them to distrust education and wonder whether it's, it's it's the right thing for them to continue with, maybe they haven't had academic success, or they've had environmental or family circumstances that have prevented barriers to them to even just to attend high school.

I think that idea that there is a place for them that higher education can be accessible for a lot of people and myself and a lot of people in our industry that are trying to do everything we can to make it accessible to all to help them gain the confidence to make that next step, recognizing the the the value that the social mobility that can occur for a young person, through education through higher education, that you know, so both can, you know, supporting those that already know that they're headed in that direction, but then also trying to help and encourage those who are skeptical about that next step, gain the confidence to make that next move and, and at a time when they are still trying to figure themselves out as Yeah, as as young people as soon to be legal adults and young adults. It's just a really fascinating time to enter into someone's life and to be a place of support and expertise.

Venkat Raman  46:57  

Awesome, awesome. I mean, you're doing great service. Great work. Thank you so much, Sean, for coming on and talking about our experience. Certainly lots of topics to explore in the future. And I'd love to have more conversations, but for right now. Thank you so much. Take care. Be safe. Talk to you soon.

Sean K  47:15  

All right. Thank you and students, make sure you engage with your school counselor early and often.

Venkat Raman  47:21  

Thanks. Thanks, Sean.

Sean K  47:23  

All right. Thank you very much for your time. Appreciate it

Venkat Raman  47:25  

Sure thing.

—---------------

Venkat  47:34

Hi again!

Hope you enjoyed our podcast with Sean Kennedy of Ravenscroft School.

Sean’s approach for counseling has been shaped by his experience over the last few decades:

  • Be an Advocate and Support Students;
  • Help the students understand themselves & their talents better;
  • Manage Expectations;
  • Celebrate their outcomes!

I hope college-bound students and parents find Sean’s perspective useful.

For your questions or comments on this podcast, please email podcast at almamatters.io [podcast@almamatters.io].

Thank you all so much for listening to our podcast today.

Transcripts for this podcast and previous podcasts are on almamatters.io forward slash podcasts [almamatters.io/podcasts].

To stay connected with us, Subscribe to Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts or Spotify or visit anchor.fm forward slash almamatters [anchor.fm/almamatters] to check us out.

Till we meet again, take care and be safe.

Thank you!

Summary Keywords

Podcast for High Schoolers, US Colleges, College Podcast, High School Counselor, High School Students, College Counseling, College Admissions, College Application, Extracurricular, Applying to US Colleges, Seattle Prep, Advice for High School Students,Managing Expectations, Applying Early, Dream Colleges.


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